My Resignation

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:58 pm

Due to the debacle caused by the protest on Happy in Race 2 i wish to resign my position on the commitee. I was the missing vote for those who care though i fail to see how that might have influenced the result.
I do not leave the commitee down a member however as Noon has graciously agreed to step up and take my position. I wish the commitee Good Luck in the future and hope that their job may become easier in time.

UnbounD · Post by **UnbounD** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:02 pm

Good on ya Noon. A non League member in all. Maybe Wood wants on as well.

Snake Rogers · Post by **Snake Rogers** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:08 pm

Noon416 · Post by **Noon416** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:35 pm

Nice way to play this Mattly, much easier to quit than face up to the mess that's been created.
But after saying what you said in PM, you're not going to be using me as an "exit strategy" and there a couple of practical considerations that you haven't thought through...

Mattly has decided to volunteer me because he asked (as part of an angry PM) if I wanted to see Prom, Big Al & himself quit the community over me pushing this matter and would I step up to the committee if they all did. Below is the relevant excerpt from my reply to his PM (unaltered and including his question):

Mattly wrote: Tell me Noon do you want to see Prom and Big Al disappear from this comunity and me as well?
Of course not, but if the committee plans to carry out such a threat of leaving the community over this matter, then it shows they you shouldn't have taken up a role where you knew questioning of your decisions was inevitable. You all already state that you know being on the committee is a hard task, that defending it's decisions on occasion has been part of the committee's history. So why are you surprised that when you make the worst decision yet made by the committee, that people fire up as much as they have?

Mattly wrote: In previous leagues people have been encouraged to except the commitees ruling because its a hard job and somebody has to do it. Are you ready to step into the commitee when we resign? I wonder if you have considered where this stir is leading us? Once a decision has been made on a protest there is no provision for a higher court nor should there be.
But the problem now is the committee's decision has demonstrated that there should be a higher power, some appeal process put in place to make sure rulings are fair, valid & consistent.

And yes, if the current committee quits their post at the first sign of trouble, I am quite willing to step up to the committee. If I hadn't decided to not race this season, I would've had my name on the volunteer list before most others, so don't bother trying the "easy to criticise from the sidelines" card.

I would like to think that Mattly was not speaking for the committee, as I would hate to think that they would resort to blackmailing people into silence instead of addressing their concerns.

So unless Prom & Big Al want to back up his claim, then I'm going to assume that he was not speaking for them and that they did not intend to be represented in such a manner. Given other statements in his PM, I'm attributing such statements to a blind rage over this matter:

Mattly wrote: I just wonder what your true intent is? Does Inspire want to stop the league due to bandwidth issues? I think we are on the verge of the destruction of this league. You are helping cause that destruction with your pointed comments and conclusions.
Right, first off can the melodrama.

The community is far from destruction. Claiming such is only demonstrating a deliberate lack of memory about the conflict laden history of this community. Points matter in these championships and there are tangible rewards at the end of the seasons, hence this community has always been fiesty when it comes to decisions against drivers. You know that, don't try to claim otherwise.

And secondly, it says a lot about your current attitude if you're willing to assign such underhanded intent to the main sponsor of the league, who has done nothing but be supportive of this league. If Inspire was going to drop the server, we would say so to the community, provide them with options, etc
Quite frankly, it pisses me off that you would entertain the idea and only makes me question your ability to deal with issues like these under pressure. You're not doing too favourably at the moment...

As for joining the current committee, I would ask what point is there joining it given how the numers work out? Unless Mattly has been holding the other committee members "hostage" to the decision, then changing Mattly for myself will not resolve the issue at hand.
Mattly didn't vote and Flyboy voted against, but that still leaves the majority who voted Happy guilty in place. And should another decision like this appear and the majority overrules common sense then I would not be backing the committee's decision from within when this happens all over again.

So at this point, I have no confidence in those committee members that still agree to upholding a false charge and as a result I'm sure they don't want me on the committee. If they feel differently and want me onboard, then I will take up the responsibility that Mattly has chosen to abandon.

And either way (accepted by the committee or not), I will be looking to form an appeal system in place for drivers that will allow such decisions to be challenged if there are relevant grounds for it and to be done in such a manner as not to be detrimental to the overall race & protest ethic of the community.

And for those that simply think I'm just stirring s*** around, I'm not. As I said to Mattly:

Noon416 wrote:I'm not taking this matter up simply because it's a DuD, I'm not taking it up because I derive any pleasure from such conflict and I'm not doing this simply to get at the committee.
I am taking it up because the committee got it as wrong as it's possible to be but is unwilling to correct their mistake and address the concerns of the community. I'm taking it up because I care about this community and want to see fairness sit in it's rightful place. .... Oh, and for the record, I would be fighting just as hard no matter who was on the recieving end of the penalty, even yourself.(Mattly)

Yes, I'm a dog with a bone that won't let go. But just to clarify, I have never advocated that the committee resign. Not once. Nor should they.
What I have called for is for the committee to admit they made a mistake, fix it and learn from the experience. To date, they have not done anything close to this and hence there is a very real risk of ridiculous (but now valid) protests being submitted.

Hmmm .... maybe I am indeed suited to arguing for the committee.

And yes Mattly, you unfortunately left me no choice to post this given the way that you've decided to involve me in your decision to quit. To post anything less would have portrayed the situation as if I'd rolled over on the issue.

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:26 pm

So if people bother reading your whole post you are saying that you won't put your hand up for the commitee?

Well as has been said countless times before to people who have contributed to a debate that they are not directly involved in, put up or shut up. I expect your next post will be you playing the "Inspire Sponsor concerned about the league" card? If you were really concerned about the league you would have been better to pm a commitee member first and give then the chance to change things without losing face. Did you pm anyone my most concerned sponsor or did you decide it was better to put it out there for everyone and for the good of the league. Have a close look at the thread Noon. Have a look at who has been involved in the discussion.

The DuD's - team that has been penalised
The Commitee - mistakingly trying to justify themselves and second guessing
Ron West - his protest rejected so not happy with the commitee
Wood - not racing but wants to add his two cents
Noon - not racing but wants his two cents as a sponsor
Sulley - the voice of reason and understanding of communication channels

Noon I will take a stab that you have someone at work that you answer to. If that person makes a bad call do you get the staff together and publicily point out his error? What is the outcome if you do?

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:34 pm

ronwest wrote:FOR ferk SAKE I DIDNT COMPLAIN ABOUT MY PROTEST TO THE COMMITTEE.

I COMPLAINED ABOUT FLYBOY'S DECISION THAT I WAS GULITY FOR INCIDENT

I didn't say that u did Ron, I merely pointed out that you were voicing your opinion whilst you had your own grievence with the commitee, so you had reason to be baised. Your testamony wouldn't stand up in court.

Happy · Post by **Happy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:42 pm

Where's all the other people from the discussion that have posted mattly

?

Snake wogers, wideload, murphy etc...

Just because people don't post doesn't mean they don't care about the decision that is being made. - You've seen the number of views on the thread so I'd say a large number of the nascar league drivers care about the outcome of this.

Wood · Post by **Wood** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:50 pm

Thats 30 points ron

Wood · Post by **Wood** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:52 pm

My bad

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:53 pm

Ron I absolutely miss your point on how my message to you in anyway has anything to do with this thread? Are you saying that you aren't unhappy about your protest being rejected? Or are you trying to point out that I choose to have the decency to have more personal discussions out of the public eye?

Noon416 · Post by **Noon416** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:53 pm

Mattly wrote:So if people bother reading your whole post you are saying that you won't put your hand up for the commitee?

Err, apparently you didn't read my post either.

I said that I would come onboard if they wanted me, but there was several practicalities you forgot to address (regarding my stance on this issue) when you attempted to ambush me with the question in your PM. So your attempt to railroad me isn't working as intended. The decision as to whether I become a member of the committte is (quite rightly) in the hands of the committee itself.

Mattly wrote:Well as has been said countless times before to people who have contributed to a debate that they are not directly involved in, put up or shut up.

See above

Mattly wrote:I expect your next post will be you playing the "Inspire Sponsor concerned about the league" card? If you were really concerned about the league you would have been better to pm a commitee member first and give then the chance to change things without losing face. Did you pm anyone my most concerned sponsor or did you decide it was better to put it out there for everyone and for the good of the league.

Despite your thoughts otherwise (spoken and implied, both here and in the PM's) , I have never used my position as a spokesman for the sponsor as leverage. Nor will I ever use the server as leverage. But it's amusing that you're trying to make a big deal out of it, given that it's never happened. I have higher ethics than that.

Mattly wrote:Have a close look at the thread Noon. Have a look at who has been involved in the discussion.
The DuD's - team that has been penalised
The Commitee - mistakingly trying to justify themselves and second guessing
Ron West - his protest rejected so not happy with the commitee
Wood - not racing but wants to add his two cents
Noon - not racing but wants his two cents as a sponsor
Sulley - the voice of reason and understanding of communication channels

And Murphys Law, Bman, Bold, TonyG, Craig SVO, Mikool, etc etc etc etc etc

So you were saying? We're not allowed to offer our opinions now?
Are we to be silenced because our opinions don't match the committee's?
I have posted as a concerned member of SimCentral, one that has raced in and intends to race again in the Nascar Leagues. I have raised valid points, and countered invalid points.
Just because I'm not racing now doesn't mean I'm not allowed to contribute to this discussion.

Mattly wrote:Noon I will take a stab that you have someone at work that you answer to. If that person makes a bad call do you get the staff together and publicily point out his error? What is the outcome if you do?

If that person made such a grevious error in public, the staff wouldn't need to get together to point it out because he would already be out there publically fixing the mistake.
And if it had to be pointed out publically by his staff, he'd be pissed off but he would still fix the error that was made.

Happy · Post by **Happy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:00 pm

I'd just like to quote a piece from the 'rules'

"All official communication, i.e. Complaints and protest replies should be sent via email to: nznascar_admin@simracerhq.co.nz and suggestions and general discussion should be made on the forum at SimCentral."

The committee has said here that we should discuss in the forum. So why is one particular committee member telling us we should not be in discussions?

Snake Rogers · Post by **Snake Rogers** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:01 pm

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:01 pm

As you are doing now along with the same bunch who were stirring in the other thread. sigh ..................it must be in the water down there.

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:05 pm

the rule used to be you could only discuss it by sending your views by e-mail to the committee.

We changed the rule so that people could discuss the incidents in an effort to get people to better understand what they did wrong, and so that others can understand what not to do whilist racing.

So far we have had this from the general popuplation:

but all we have in our efforts for a decent discussion from the committee is: