Protest Results NZNL Race 3

[TonyG]

Protests Race 3 Thunderbay

The driver being protested against is the second named one as below:

Odie v Jason Dellaway

A serious collision. Rear ending a car in this situation is unacceptable. We cannot offer any other advice other than keep your eyes on the road ahead.
GUILTY with a – 27 point reduction

Jason Dellaway v Biteme

Biteme was making a clean pass under Jason but drifted slightly high in the turn, but importantly Jason did not give enough room to allow Biteme to pass.
Thunder bay is a tricky to track to master, when passing or being passed you must ensure that there is enough room between cars to allow for lag or similar. In this case both drivers made an error.
NOT GUILTY RACE INCIDENT


Flyboy v Mattly

This was a startline incident where Mattly did not judge his closing gap to the car in front very well, he slowed perhaps more than he should have and caused Big Al and then Flyboy to slow as well, Flyboy locked a brake and spun with the resultant loss of places at the start. We think that Flyboy just braked too hard or too late to avoid contact with Big Al, although he would not have had to brake had Mattly been more conscientious in his start procedure. Quite a tough one to judge but as we believe Mattly was not intentionally brake checking we treat it as an unfortunate start incident. Mattly is warned that he must keep a constant spacing between the car in front and himself. A repeat offence will be penalised.
NOT GUILTY WITH A WARNING

Flyboy v Gregory

This, we believe, is a rookie mistake but unfortunately a mistake that has not been learnt from so far.
Part of the passing rule states

“Defending your racing line is acceptable when racing for position, but a penalty can be applied to a car that forces a passing car below the yellow line or causes an accident by coming down on the passing car if this car is positioned inside the car being passed. Similarly the passing car can be penalised if they do not maintain a low line while passing (thus causing an accident).â€Â

[odonohuesp]

SimRacerHq points have been updated

[Big Al]

I would like to quote Snake if thats ok "Bollocks to that decision"
I wont bother submitting a protest in future.

[UnbounD]

No Al, you protest evertime you get Rodgered. Its important. Even if it is considered a racing INCIDENT, They add up.

You go Girl

[Snake Rogers]

I would like to quote Snake if thats ok "Bollocks to that decision"
I wont bother submitting a protest in future.

[Flyboy69]

I dont know what replay you were watching but in my replay and the server replay it shows Murphys Law hitting me.

Bollocks to that decision

Here is a screenie showing how close we got when I moved down. You might say lag then caused the crash, it cant of because we continued on for a couple of seconds as you can see in the following screen shots.

Screen shots taken from the server replay, my replay shows the same.

[Mattly]

Whew, glad i didn't get penalised. My apologise to Flyboy for causing him to brake heavily.

[Flyboy69]

I would like to hear the commitee comment on these screen shots as I think it shows that I'm innocent.

Mattly, sweet as mate.

[BAZZIL]

Whew, glad i didn't get penalised. My apologise to Flyboy for causing him to brake heavily.

Warning, Warning Mattly, you get a Warning 'cause you didn't keep speed at the start, You'll be penalised next time you do a bad start

[UnbounD]

ahem

[BAZZIL]

I would like to quote Snake if thats ok "Bollocks to that decision"
I wont bother submitting a protest in future.

We here at Sim Central understand your frustration, so have included a Smily just for these situations ..

[Big Al]

I would like to quote Snake if thats ok "Bollocks to that decision"
I wont bother submitting a protest in future.

We here at Sim Central understand your frustration, so have included a Smily just for these situations ..

Sweet as

[Inspector]

I would like to hear the commitee comment on these screen shots as I think it shows that I'm innocent.

Screenshots show nothing Flyboy. How about your comments on this small Video of the incident. In my and obviously the rest of the committee's view you miscalculated and moved down and hit Murphys car.


The innocent victim hear is Viking who drove a steady high line to allow the fast approaching cars a clear run up the inside, but instead of following the SimTV car along that lower line you went high behind Viking and had to swerve down to avoid him and hit Murphy who has taken the opening you gave him by going high.

[Flyboy69]

Like I was saying both the server replay and my replay show it different to that, that movie looks like its been edited Inspector.

[Gregory]

It looks like the competition is no longer about who can race but more about who can take the most points off other drivers in the protest room.
The heavy points penalties are just going to cause guys to second think whether they want to drive in this league - its not going teach them to drive better. Maybe the protest committee and the front runners want the league to themselves.

[Big Al]

It looks like the competition is no longer about who can race but more about who can take the most points off other drivers in the protest room.
The heavy points penalties are just going to cause guys to second think whether they want to drive in this league - its not going teach them to drive better. Maybe the protest committee and the front runners want the league to themselves.

Disagree Gregory, last week there were no protest at all so i doubt it is being used as a means of making drivers lose points. I have not seen your protest and my comments here are in no way directly relalated to your incident but in general i like to see the high penalty points, nothing worse than getting ripped in a race and losing 15+ positions and then protest and the driver at fault getting a b/s -5 pt penalty...... the penalty should fit the crime.

[Inspector]

Like I was saying both the server replay and my replay show it different to that, that movie looks like its been edited Inspector.

Show us your version then Flyboy. Screenshots can be snapped at anytime to show what you want. The video shows the whole story. Why on earth would I edit it. I have met you and you stayed at my house for the weekend. I have never met Murphy, he has never paid the committee any bribes and so we have no reason to be biased toward him.


We (5 experienced competitors) have the evidence in front of us and made our decision based upon it. You have the opportunity to submit evidence in your defense but didn't. Then you post still shots afterwards that show nothing about the car movements throughout the whole incident.

I made two mistakes last week and one I was very fortunate not to get protested on, none of us like admitting we are wrong but when we are it is just a case of accepting it and getting on with it.

It looks like the competition is no longer about who can race but more about who can take the most points off other drivers in the protest room.
The heavy points penalties are just going to cause guys to second think whether they want to drive in this league - its not going teach them to drive better. Maybe the protest committee and the front runners want the league to themselves.

After week one we pointed out that you were driving in a manner which appeared to others that you were blocking. We tried to advise you on what you were doing and how you could fix it. This did not arise from just one race. A few seasons ago when you raced there were comments about you blocking on the low line and slowing everyone. So we gave you some advice, not just the committee but other drivers as well, you didn't get protested or penalised. Now this week you have done the same again, many complaints were heard during the race, 2 protests were recieved after the race and I myself was nearly the victim of one of your blocking moves during the race which was only foiled by the fact that I was going too fast for you to get down in front of me.


The conclusion is simple. Too many people view these incidents as deliberate blocking and you have been penalised accordingly. Because you did not take notice when you had the chance we have no option but to make you take notice. Now it is up to you. We want you to race, we have all commented on how fast you are, you seem to have great control of your car (more than a lot of the senior drivers) so lose the passing complex and you'll be fine.


Isn't it interesting that the person who protested against you is the one complaining about our decision against him but is more than happy with our decision in support of his protest even though no contact was made. We have tred to make independant, unbiased decisions that we hope are in the best interests of the league, we just hope all who are penalised can accept that, learn and move on as we are.

[Inspector]

I would like to quote Snake if thats ok "Bollocks to that decision"
I wont bother submitting a protest in future.

Big Al you were involved in an incident and felt it was the other drivers fault. Your are entitled to protest and should do so.


Some things you should note about our view of the incident. JBR has been complained about and penalised for other incidents. This does not mean he is guilty for every incident. We try to base our decisions on individual incidents, although driver attitude during a race can have an overall effect.

In this incident we see a very slight gap for you to poke your nose in. You took a chance and went for it but the gap was closed instantly and the two cars touched. Now in the replay you sent us you hit behind the rear wheel, indicating you have only just nosed under his bumper. Not what we consider far enough up to have the line.

So we concluded that yes, JBR did move down on to you, but you did not really have a big enough gap nor the speed to make the pass so you should have held off for a better opportunity. Faults on boith sides and just one of those things that happen in high pressure situations.

We therefore rated it as a racing incident. As Gregory has kindly pointed out, the penalties are about stopping stupidity and people breaking the rules. Those we will jump on heavily. Your incident was just that, an incident and we hope you can understand that and move on. Like I said in the beginning, you should protest any time you think someone has done wrong, this gives us the opportunity to identify where issues are and offer advice etc to those concerened to help improve all round and make the race more fun for everyone.


Cheers

[Happy]

Can you email me a cut of the replay flyboy ? tonychesterman at paradise dot net dot nz.

I want to have a gander at it >8p

[Big Al]

I would like to quote Snake if thats ok "Bollocks to that decision"
I wont bother submitting a protest in future.

Big Al you were involved in an incident and felt it was the other drivers fault. Your are entitled to protest and should do so.


Some things you should note about our view of the incident. JBR has been complained about and penalised for other incidents. This does not mean he is guilty for every incident. We try to base our decisions on individual incidents, although driver attitude during a race can have an overall effect.

In this incident we see a very slight gap for you to poke your nose in. You took a chance and went for it but the gap was closed instantly and the two cars touched. Now in the replay you sent us you hit behind the rear wheel, indicating you have only just nosed under his bumper. Not what we consider far enough up to have the line.

So we concluded that yes, JBR did move down on to you, but you did not really have a big enough gap nor the speed to make the pass so you should have held off for a better opportunity. Faults on boith sides and just one of those things that happen in high pressure situations.

We therefore rated it as a racing incident. As Gregory has kindly pointed out, the penalties are about stopping stupidity and people breaking the rules. Those we will jump on heavily. Your incident was just that, an incident and we hope you can understand that and move on. Like I said in the beginning, you should protest any time you think someone has done wrong, this gives us the opportunity to identify where issues are and offer advice etc to those concerened to help improve all round and make the race more fun for everyone.


Cheers

No worries Inspector there are no sour grapes here
what i dont understand is this comment about me making a pass, JBR left the draft to make a pass then changed his mind and came back down on me, I maintained a straight line behind Jetboy and never deviated left or right i would hardly say i was making a pass?
there has been a few post about being aware of whats happening around you during the race and i was racing for position while JBR was a lap down i know if i was in JBR position i would have let me through...i guess it comes down to racing etiquette.... some of us have it while others dont.

[Inspector]

A fair comment Big Al and yes, racing etiquette certainly seems to be missing for some drivers.

[Happy]

I have watched the video and have decided it is Flyboys fault. The screenshots you posted flyboy are tits on a bull as they don't show you turning across the track.

Even if Murphy didn't hold his line - you weren't holding yours either and you looked quite dodgy.

[Flyboy69]

Your all looking at the first part of the incident when I moved down the track, but we didnt touch, I then moved back he the track, so did Murphy, he moved up a little to far and tagged me. I can see I'm not going to win this but I'll keep trying

If i can have a place to upload a movie I will, or email it

[TonyG]

I have received your replay thanks Flyboy

First thing is to confirm a couple of things, you have 24 hours to state your side of the issue before the commitee makes a decision, with the amount of protests that came in this race it can become hugely time consuming if everyone submits replays just because they don't like the result, so if everyone can spend some of their time and submit a response in the time allowed it would save a lot of unneeded hassle:)

The commitee vote on this was 4 to 1 guilty, so that's fairly straightforward.
The reasons given for a guilty verdict were basically that Flyboy was passed by Murphy and as Flyboy came up behind a slower Viking he drifted too low and tagged the rear of Murphys car, the other options available to Flyboy was to slow behind Viking or slow behind Viking enough to allow him to slot in behind Murphy, there appeared to be no sign of Flyboy lifting.
Flyboy would have been aware of Murphy being on his low side as he could see him and would have received a low call from his spotter.

[Jetboy]

Well after only starting to work on the protests this season I'm getting to see that its actually alot more involved than I initially thought

The 5 drivers on the race committee do (IMO) represent quite varied driving styles and from the reviews that we compile we each have our own take on the various situations, hence why we have 5 so we hopefully get a spread of opinion

I Make a point of doing my analysis before reading the other guys comments as want to keep my own views unbiased to what others think of particular incidents but so far most protests seemed to have lined up between the 5 of us