NZNL 6 - Race 2 American Raceway Drivers under Investigation

[odonohuesp]

List subject to change:


Wide Load vs Danman Lap 35 Time 29:00
Wide load is rear-ended by Danman
-8
Please make more of an attempt at avoiding the car infront of you, if lifting off or braking is not going to slow you down fast enough you need to look at at least changing your line so you don't ram the car infront off the road.

Major Havoc Lap 73 Time 59:00
Wide load is rear ended by Havoc
-8
Havoc could have changed line to avoid the incident - for example, Havoc you could have moved high to avoid wide load who was slightly slower on the bottom groove.

Mikool Lap 1 Time 1:20
Mikool takes a dangerous approach to turn two making it three wide, failing to backout and rear-ending Unbound and causing much greivance to many others' race.
-28
There are people in this league who are serious about racing, when it is the second turn of the race going three wide is viewed as very silly, you have an easy option to back out. Please be careful when you are in a large pack and ESPECIALY on the first lap!

Viking Lap 67
-0
AND (same incident)
Flyboy69 Lap 67
Fly moves left after turn 1 (by pit exit) forcing viking low into Snake Wogers
-10

The committee judged that Flyboy was at fault. Best advice is don't rely on the 'pit in message' letting everyone know exactly what you are up to. There was no way viking knew to pass right even if he did see the message, best idea is to just keep a consistent line.

Storm Lap 70
Storm tries to fit his car between Bazzil and Snake where it just won't fit
-13
A rather silly Move storm, best you use your mirrors next time, it was clearly obvious that there were two cars on the outside of you and that there was no space to move into, if you drifted up due to worn tires, you need to be lifting off more through the turn and not accelerating as hard when you exit.


Mikool Lap 50 Time 40:54
Mikool slides off pit entrance after a fast entry and collides with the cars coming out of turn 3-4
-26
even the most remote amount of practice on this track should ring alarm bells that if you do go too fast on the pit road entrance you are sure to ruin someones race because there is nowhere else to slide apart from onto the track. Extreme caution should be taken in this situation and if you can't keep the car on the entrance without sliding, you are simply driving too fast for the circumstances.
Best advice is practice pitting and drive to your abilities.

[odonohuesp]

edited

[odonohuesp]

edited

[mikool]

I'll take my 1st lap pen....

But the secound one.... I missed juded one pit and you take 26 points. All my other pits where fine.

High points there as well...

[Prometheus]

Isn't the issue the result of the damage of you entering pits too fast though ? If all of your pits were fine, cool. If you entered pits once too fast, slid out and carried on, fine. But you entered too fast, slid out and caused a spectacular accident. Totally your fault. Ergo, you are penalised a lot.

My 2.57c worth.

[Bold]

Heh, I'm with Prom... You'll have a hard time finding any sympathy for that one Mikool

[Biteme]

Isn't the issue the result of the damage of you entering pits too fast though ? If all of your pits were fine, cool. If you entered pits once too fast, slid out and carried on, fine. But you entered too fast, slid out and caused a spectacular accident. Totally your fault. Ergo, you are penalised a lot.

My 2.57c worth.

Not the case I'm afraid, I've been informed in each of the previous two leagues that the incident is judged on it's margin of stupidity not on it's impact on the other drivers. Though reading some of Odie's comments I would query if this is no longer the case.

[Big Al]

As long as the penalties are consistant throughout the season and with Riki having a fast tricky pit entrance there could be a few people losing 26 points this week.

[Big Al]

Isn't the issue the result of the damage of you entering pits too fast though ? If all of your pits were fine, cool. If you entered pits once too fast, slid out and carried on, fine. But you entered too fast, slid out and caused a spectacular accident. Totally your fault. Ergo, you are penalised a lot.

My 2.57c worth.

Not the case I'm afraid, I've been informed in each of the previous two leagues that the incident is judged on it's margin of stupidity not on it's impact on the other drivers. Though reading some of Odie's comments I would query if this is no longer the case.

Agreed, I thought the reason for protest is to help people realise their errors and offer advice to help them from not doing them again. consistantly making the same error should be met with a higher penalty but for a first time offence 26 seems a bit harsh.

[BAZZIL]

well we have given out advice and for some people the message isn't getting thru and many seem to be taking the approach of "it's just meant to be fun"

It is difficult to be consistent because there are 6 or so members on the committee and each one of them will have their own view of any given incident. We are indeed making more of an effort to be consistent between ourselves and have structured a guide as to what penalty points should be given for what type and severity of incident. But you can never get everything 100% consistent unless you have just one person on the committee.

Everyone thinks they would be the perfect judge until the actualy have to do it

The incident with sliding off pit road was viewed by most of the committee as being severe because you are almost 100% guaranteed a pileup if you mess up on pit road on that track. On Riki if you mess it up there is a good chance you'll either go sliding into the pit lane too fast or you'll go sliding onto the grass and there is also much more concrete space to recover on if you do happen to loose traction.

26 may seem a bit harsh but we have tried to up the penalty numbers becuase of the repeat occurances that happened last season.

[BAZZIL]

Isn't the issue the result of the damage of you entering pits too fast though ? If all of your pits were fine, cool. If you entered pits once too fast, slid out and carried on, fine. But you entered too fast, slid out and caused a spectacular accident. Totally your fault. Ergo, you are penalised a lot.

My 2.57c worth.

Not the case I'm afraid, I've been informed in each of the previous two leagues that the incident is judged on it's margin of stupidity not on it's impact on the other drivers. Though reading some of Odie's comments I would query if this is no longer the case.

Agreed, I thought the reason for protest is to help people realise their errors and offer advice to help them from not doing them again. consistantly making the same error should be met with a higher penalty but for a first time offence 26 seems a bit harsh.

26 seems harsh?

hmmm, lets see where Odie ended up in that race... 12th. What's odies average finishing position? about 3rd or 4th. Which makes roughly 33 points lost - wouldn't you say that's a bit harsh?

If you ask me the drivers that ruin other peoples races get off rather lightly . While there will always be dings, I'd have to say the penalty points given is rather low.

[Riven]

but for a first time offence

[odonohuesp]

Isn't the issue the result of the damage of you entering pits too fast though ? If all of your pits were fine, cool. If you entered pits once too fast, slid out and carried on, fine. But you entered too fast, slid out and caused a spectacular accident. Totally your fault. Ergo, you are penalised a lot.

My 2.57c worth.

Not the case I'm afraid, I've been informed in each of the previous two leagues that the incident is judged on it's margin of stupidity not on it's impact on the other drivers. Though reading some of Odie's comments I would query if this is no longer the case.

The comments that have appeared in my post are not my comments, but a collaboration of the committees. Each member of the committee has input on each incident.

[Inspector]

26 seems harsh?

hmmm, lets see where Odie ended up in that race... 12th. What's odies average finishing position? about 3rd or 4th. Which makes roughly 33 points lost - wouldn't you say that's a bit harsh?

If you ask me the drivers that ruin other peoples races get off rather lightly . While there will always be dings, I'd have to say the penalty points given is rather low.

I also lost a number of places in that incident as well, as did a few others but that is not the point. If you drive carelessly on the track and cause an accident (like the other protest from this race) you get penalised, and I quote "I'll take my 1st lap pen.... " but when you drive carelessly into the pits and cause an accident why is it just called a misjudgement?


Pretty well the whole committee was influenced by the fact that Mikool turned up and caused two major incidents, and based upon his history and his cavalair attitude after the race about it just being for fun he got pinged quite heavely. Future incidents will get bigger penalties and he will either back off and cause no incidents or he will find himself learning how not to cause incidents in the rookie league.

[Big Al]

to me the current system is alot based on luck as there are many drivers who do not submit protest. last week i took a driver out but as i knew this driver has never to my knowledge submitted any protest i knew i was likely to get away with it and i did.

perhaps a better way would be for 1 person to review the first 10 laps when there is alot of bunched cars and a high chance of an incident and the last 10 laps when the business end of the race is happening and that 1 person is responsible for submitting protest so that everyone is treated the same. any incidents between those laps is simply treated as s**t happens unless you really thought you were intentionally taken out.
Also pit entrances could be reviewed rather quickly using the pit entrance camera as this is a common place for incidents.

[MadMarty13]

Whilst we have a democracy we also have to many 'politicians'
The committee is there to do a job and they seem quite capable of doing it ok
To keep questioning the committee is becoming a bit tiresome now and rather insulting,a lot of time is put into reviewing protests and to have decisions questioned often can become rather disheartening,I have never protested and could have a few times ,there are some incidents where i could have been protested against and havent been,if I make an error and get a protest and a subsequent penaltly then, if it was my fault, then naturally i will accept...take the points loss....and learn from it.I have faith in the committee and respect their integrity as should everyone racing in the league.
just my opinion nothing more nothing less

[Biteme]

Isn't the issue the result of the damage of you entering pits too fast though ? If all of your pits were fine, cool. If you entered pits once too fast, slid out and carried on, fine. But you entered too fast, slid out and caused a spectacular accident. Totally your fault. Ergo, you are penalised a lot.

My 2.57c worth.

Not the case I'm afraid, I've been informed in each of the previous two leagues that the incident is judged on it's margin of stupidity not on it's impact on the other drivers. Though reading some of Odie's comments I would query if this is no longer the case.

The comments that have appeared in my post are not my comments, but a collaboration of the committees. Each member of the committee has input on each incident.

Yus, yus you are totally correct. I realised after submitting that you were obviosly posting the collective thoughts and not your own, apologies.

In reference to Bazzils post, I was informed after Race 1 in Season 5, and in no uncertain terms, that the committee judged incidents on their error not on the resulting carnage. This was in response to my query of why Bazzil only recieved -8 points in bunting me from 2nd place to the high 20's. As the committee's reasoning on these 2 incidents are inconsistant and as both these incidents involved committee members, I think this should be given some thought so as to avoid a repeat.

I am still a fan of us having a list of all the usual fouls with fixed penalty values against each foul, and some form of multiplying factor for repeat offences.

[Biteme]

Whilst we have a democracy we also have to many 'politicians'
The committee is there to do a job and they seem quite capable of doing it ok
To keep questioning the committee is becoming a bit tiresome now and rather insulting,a lot of time is put into reviewing protests and to have decisions questioned often can become rather disheartening,I have never protested and could have a few times ,there are some incidents where i could have been protested against and havent been,if I make an error and get a protest and a subsequent penaltly then, if it was my fault, then naturally i will accept...take the points loss....and learn from it.I have faith in the committee and respect their integrity as should everyone racing in the league.
just my opinion nothing more nothing less

I was not questioning the decision or their integrity, nor from what I have read is anyone else.
In a democracy we can assist the governing body if we note an injustice, or in this case an inconsistency, that may have slipped through. I am only mentioning this as something the committee can discuss between themselves to form a consensus for the future. Try and stay positive.

[mikool]

but when you drive carelessly into the pits and cause an accident why is it just called a misjudgement?

Man... I wish I could be perfect... It was a misjudgement in one of my many pits...

I will take my points. (not much I can do about it anyway)

All I say you now have set a high precedent for a similar accidents. so make sure you guys are consistent.

[Prometheus]

As it should be !

If you make a silly mistake, as a driver be aware there can be a penalty attatched to it. If someone involved chooses to lodge a protest.