Thoughts for future seasons

rob_c · Post by **rob_c** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:41 am

I know it's early days, But I wonder if it might be an idea to think about adding a Blue Flag rule into future seasons' rules ?

So that any lapped cars or any cars who have been caught by the leader and who are about to be lapped, should yield and call them through.

I know that Nascar doesn't have a Lapped car rule . . . but just about every other form of motor sport does, doesn't it ?

It just that a lot of incidents seem to happen when lapped cars try to mix it up with lead lap cars from behind while fighting for their positions in front.

And sometimes a lapped car doesn't know what the best thing is to do :

If a single lead lap car catches you, does he want to pass ? . . . or does he want to use you as a shield for his fuel ? . . . does he want to draft behind you ? . . . or does he want to pass you and you draft with him ?

If a lapped car is between two lead lap cars . . . the front lead lap car would prefer he stays there . . . whereas the rear one wants him to move.

Skuzzlebutt · Post by **Skuzzlebutt** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:55 am

I can see where you're coming from but I don't know if a blue flag system is really in the spirit of NASCAR. Trying to get that lap back is a big part of NASCAR racing both online and in real life. Innit?

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:58 am

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:00 am

Yer we have sort of been over the blue flag type thing.
As with proper nascar there is no blue flags so it's a bit hard to police.

Every car you see shouldn't look like someone to pass (a lap down or otherwise) it should look like an aid to you to use in your draft to give you extra speed.

The only time you should pass someone is if you feel they are too dodgy to draft with or you feel they are too slow on the circuit that they are slowing down the draft.

What happens early on in the race when there is an accident and drivers are taken out and wind up almost a lap down? Do you expect them to wave every driver through that comes up on them for the rest of the race?
You'll find that they still have a good chance of getting a good position - even winning, as there is also a good chance those cars on the lead lap will wind up in a ding.

rob_c · Post by **rob_c** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:41 pm

k . . so basically . . . we are always racing with whoever we happen to be with on the track . . . irrespective of race position.

So no-one can complain or protest another driver on the basis that they are a lap down and "got in their way".

It's just that there have been a few comments made about lapped cars, and as I'm usually in the position of BEING the lapped car, I just wanted to make sure I know how to handle the situation in the spirit of the rules.

In the past I have always yielded to anyone on the lead lap . . . I guess that was the wrong thing to do.

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:58 pm

There is no 'you have to move out of the way for lead cars' rule. What there is, is a rule where near the end of the race you must keep out of the way of people that are not racing you for position. The reason being a team mate can't intentionaly slow another car down who might be racing their other team mate.

There is however common courtesy of moving out of the way if you are slow or not in a draft (which of course is up to you weather or not you are courteous).
If you want to jam up a draft that's fine, but if you cause an accident doing so, you'll be penalised.
You are quite entitled to run a low line and force a draft to go around you.

It's in peoples best interests to driver courteously, otherwise when you're in drafts you will quickly find how many mates you don't have

Skuzzlebutt · Post by **Skuzzlebutt** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:02 pm

It's a little murky eh.

Speaking as an oft lapped driver myself here, I figure it thusly:

I'll move over (but only if I can do so without loosing control of me functions) if there's a train approaching going markedly faster than I regardless of their positions.

If however (like last night) the leaders are only slowly gaining on me (fractions of seconds per lap I'm talking here) and I'm at risk of going a lap down if they pass then I'll try to stay in front. I won't unduly hold them up if they have a speed advantage but if I can join their train at the front to stay on the lead lap then I will.

Of course, if I'm having a shitter and am many laps down I tend to just stay out of the way, try and latch onto a fast train and hope for dings to catch up.

I guess wot I'm getting at is that with this type of racing, while it would be good to be able to govern, there are just too many variables to be able to do so fairly and still keep the racing interesting. Real life NASCAR haven't found a way to do it so I guess we probably won't either and we'll just have to rely on our combined good manners to keep things fast and competitive yet friendly and fair.

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:28 pm

Skuzzlebutt wrote:
I'll move over (but only if I can do so without loosing control of me functions) if there's a train approaching going markedly faster than I regardless of their positions.

If however (like last night) the leaders are only slowly gaining on me (fractions of seconds per lap I'm talking here) and I'm at risk of going a lap down if they pass then I'll try to stay in front. I won't unduly hold them up if they have a speed advantage but if I can join their train at the front to stay on the lead lap then I will.

Of course, if I'm having a shitter and am many laps down I tend to just stay out of the way, try and latch onto a fast train and hope for dings to catch up.

+1

Last night I had Odie coming up behind me in 3rd, me I'm somewhere in the teens. It wouldn't have made sense for me to block Odie from overtaking me, yet he wasn't going excessively fast to have the speed to carry past me. So we drafted together for a few laps quite nicely.

Chances are, if you can safely let a faster car past you, you'll end up getting dragged along in their tow and it's good news for you.

Best aid for driving now is ventrillo, so you can talk to the faster driver and ask them what they want to do.

Happy · Post by **Happy** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:12 pm

A lot of drivers in our league ask the person behind if they want to pass. You could even try asking the driver in front of you to let you pass?

Post by **Jetboy** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:03 pm

Prometheus wrote:Best aid for driving now is ventrillo, so you can talk to the faster driver and ask them what they want to do.

Exactly, as long as you can get a word in edgeways

In Nascar the spotters above the track are wheeling and dealing amongst each other all the time to help each other out or use someone to save fuel/improve track position....which is essentially what Ventrillo is being used for. Is pretty much the only time you'll hear me on vent is when I'm approaching someone letting them know what I'm up to or when a faster car (that I can work a draft behind) is behind me and I want to let them lead

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:18 pm

rob_c wrote:k . . so basically . . . we are always racing with whoever we happen to be with on the track . . . irrespective of race position.

So no-one can complain or protest another driver on the basis that they are a lap down and "got in their way".

It's just that there have been a few comments made about lapped cars, and as I'm usually in the position of BEING the lapped car, I just wanted to make sure I know how to handle the situation in the spirit of the rules.

In the past I have always yielded to anyone on the lead lap . . . I guess that was the wrong thing to do.

Rob there is a difference between racing rules and racing etiquette!

You wont see a driver penalised for holding the racing line with lead cars behind him, but you will get a right bollocking on venrillo for being a tosser!

odonohuesp · Post by **odonohuesp** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:48 pm

Prometheus wrote:
Skuzzlebutt wrote:
I'll move over (but only if I can do so without loosing control of me functions) if there's a train approaching going markedly faster than I regardless of their positions.

If however (like last night) the leaders are only slowly gaining on me (fractions of seconds per lap I'm talking here) and I'm at risk of going a lap down if they pass then I'll try to stay in front. I won't unduly hold them up if they have a speed advantage but if I can join their train at the front to stay on the lead lap then I will.

Of course, if I'm having a shitter and am many laps down I tend to just stay out of the way, try and latch onto a fast train and hope for dings to catch up.

+1

Last night I had Odie coming up behind me in 3rd, me I'm somewhere in the teens. It wouldn't have made sense for me to block Odie from overtaking me, yet he wasn't going excessively fast to have the speed to carry past me. So we drafted together for a few laps quite nicely.

Chances are, if you can safely let a faster car past you, you'll end up getting dragged along in their tow and it's good news for you.

Best aid for driving now is ventrillo, so you can talk to the faster driver and ask them what they want to do.

This work out great...at the time I had nothing to gain by passing Prom, so I eased off and drafted with them, with hope that we could work to catch 2nd place. Now if Prom did not know how to hold a good racing line, I would have tried to make the pass.

Prom...how did my connection look to you last night.

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:45 pm

In my mirror I thought it looked ok by memory.

Major Havoc · Post by **Major Havoc** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:21 pm

Here is a thought... I am still a n00b to Nascar, but maybe we only have Teams in the Main League, and if there is a protest the points go against the whole team !! Would this encourage cleaner racing ? Knowing that your actions are going to affect 4 people !!!

Is this fair ?

Only have Teams ?
And your actions effect the whole team ?

Comments please.....

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:32 pm

Major Havoc wrote:Only have Teams ?
And your actions effect the whole team ?

Personally I don't care about the team points. They are an amusing (and frequently not so amusing) side line to competing individually as far as the points go.

Penalties do effect the team at the moments anyway. The teams down as many points as the driver is.