NASCAR Yellow Flag Race Discussion

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:51 am

time for some discussion about how to go about the yellow flag racing, which will allow us to setup some basic rules.

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:59 am

I reckon stick to what we drive now, that will be better than newer people learning how the cup cars handle online.
Moderate damage, yellows on
Two races? One Superspeedway (Daytona) and one speedway (Michegan), say, 20% race
Have to be Monday, Friday or Saturday?
My 2c

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:37 am

As a relative n00b to this scene my suggestion is:

Leave yellows and damage off for the moment, and perhaps introduce it next season on one race to gauge reactions. Or run a separate non-league race once to see just how 30 odd trucks can handle it.

There needs to be the balance between game racing online (what we do now) and simulated racing online when looking at with yellows and damage. While I have no experience of racing online with yellows and damage, the games I have played against AI with this on has quickly dropped into a high frustration when events happen through no fault of your own. Mind you , I have yet to be rammed up the arse by AI, yet online that's happened once or twice

Judging by how online racing has a considerable amount of variables that you have no control over - like lag and the unknown factor of opponents - introducing some sort of driving penalties through damage and yellows has the potential to change the series considerably, and not for the better. And what are the chances of the person being penalised by having their truck damaged actually caused the incident in the 1st place ?

Last night the Aussies were calling for a re-start due to a problem. The server had problems a few times, with the entire field disappearing. It wouldn't be a lot of fun racing and having these issues damage you and take you out of the race, or if not out of the race then having a non-competitive truck.

Even amongst relatively skilled drivers last night, things happened. With yellows and damage on, it has the potential to punish those drivers with less skill, which has the ultimate return of driving (no pun intended) people away from the league. In the end, it'll just be you regular guys racing over and over again, and new people could be reluctant to join something that has a very steep learning curve and strong punishment factor.

After all, it is a game.

This is just my 3rd season, and as it's obviously apparent ! I've still got a heap to learn. But it's fun, I really enjoy the series and look forward to Wednesday nights like a big kid.

RedWulf · Post by **RedWulf** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:07 am

Damage and Yellow flags is either something you'll love or hate....no in between I wouldn't think. Probably the best way to go about it is to run some races completely separate from the current CTS league. Different night ect, if you want to give it a go, do so....if not don't. Pretty simple really, personally I'd like to try it.

RedWulf

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:23 pm

it will be a seperate night, for those and only those that have a interest in running with yellows on.

wrecks will still happen, and to begin with there will be lots of time spent under yellow for the first few races.

as a general overall rule, everyone should have to agree that they are there to use yellows, no one should complain about the number of yellows or that they are getting ripped.

unless everyone comes into this with a 100% open mind then there's no point turning up to race with yellows on. thre willbe wrecks and there will be yellows, happens in real life happens in sim .racing

damage should remain off, yellows will be enough work.

another basic rule being thrown ito the mix is that a race official will review the incident while the feild is under yellow, and the person(s) causing the yellow would be sent to the rear of the feild, as they do in dirt track racing and this wouldnt be up for argument. the offical may get it wrong sometimes, much like a cricklet umpire, but this is a disincentive to drive wrecklessly thinking you wont be effected by the yellow.

the order of finish isnt important as is running with yellows, and getting the number of yellows down.

my focus is to work on the cause of the yellows to prevent them to begin with, people simply couldnt go out and race wrecklessly all night.

I am more then happy to make up reviews of incidents so that we can analyze each one to see if can improve the general overall race abliltes of everyone, as this would cross over to the CTS league for those that run in the test series.

as far as the aussies go last night, thats is how they race and hace done so for a long time. the sportscar league went through the restart issue in season one, and the aussies soon adjusted to having to actually make a proper start knowing they wouldnt get a restart

rob_c · Post by **rob_c** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:44 pm

1) Yellows ON = Drivers may take some risks that they wouldn't normally take, as they know that the Yellow will prevent them going down a lap (usually) in the event of a serious accident . . . and this can lead to lots of time cruising around under yellow . . . some races I've been in have been 50% under yellow = BORING.

2) Damage ON = Drivers should be more careful in their driving, and take fewer risks, but you then run the risk of losing drivers who get damaged severely . . . and there's the frustration factor of getting damaged by not being able to avoid someone else's accident, being an innocent victim and having your night ruined = NO FUN.

So, if you want a different format for another Nascar League, might I suggest:

1) Cup Cars - Fixed Fast Setup ;

2) Yellows ON ;

3) Damage OFF.

. . . and see how you go.

If you RESPECT the other drivers, then no-one should take crazy risks and the Number of Yellows should be minimum.

Cup cars are obviously more of a handful, but shouldn't be a problem if you stick with Fixed Setups . . . it's really only when guys try using faster setups (that they can't handle) that you start to get lots of problems.

And I'd avoid the smaller tracks and the flat tracks for your first series as well.

.

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:18 pm

Good points Ron

fair 'nuf, it does have to be an all or nothing affair.

The concept of having someone review the incident is good too - maybe the offender can get an attack of the guilts and raise their hand too

Sounds like a good plan guys, I'm in.

storm · Post by **storm** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:40 pm

i wouldn't mind using aero 88 mod for this as dosen't it have better damage model

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:48 pm

it will be either cts or cup, no point at this stage introducing a new mod.

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:39 pm

If this is a practice couple of races, with the thought of making it the main league, then we should probably just run CTS, but if the consensus is to run a second NASCAR league then obviously run CUP

i.e. Wednesday - CTS no yellows or damage
Monday?? - CUP yellows, maybe with damage on

chronic · Post by **chronic** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:18 pm

GTP.

limbo · Post by **limbo** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:09 pm

you should race with damage on....
at least that way those of you that race oceanic sportscars
would be damage aware come sundays

Happy · Post by **Happy** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:09 pm

Sounds like your grapes are sour limbo

limbo · Post by **limbo** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:46 pm

Happy wrote:Sounds like your grapes are sour limbo

LOL. they were

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:52 pm

With the Trans Tasman race over, anyone still wanting to try a yellow race?

Wood · Post by **Wood** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:51 pm

There has to be a trial, it's not a question of whether yellows and damage will improve the driving standards, but whether its worth the initial pain and anguish.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:38 pm

with not to many rookies showing up for their exclusive praccy, the thought is to run practice on mondays and tuesdays for cts, with monday night having a 30% yellow flag race

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:58 pm

Sounds good Ron, so that's Yellows on but damage still off at Lowes?

It's a tight track, quite narrow, pretty much single file I think, should be good

mikool · Post by **mikool** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:04 pm

i will give yellow's a blast on tuesday. I am always there getting all the track time i can get.

and even damage will be ok. As i don't crash. people always crash into me..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:17 pm

mikool wrote:i will give yellow's a blast on tuesday. I am always there getting all the track time i can get.

and even damage will be ok. As i don't crash. people always crash into me..

yellows will be monday mikey, leaves tuesday for official practice

damage will be off for now, there will be a rule that anyone causing a caution will be sent to the back, and if they cause another, they get held for one lap in the pits, and so on.

it will be relaxed thou for the first few weeks

odonohuesp · Post by **odonohuesp** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:09 pm

IMHO you can not have one without the other.

If you turn yellows on and no damage, you will may find drivers bring out a caution so they can be with the main pack.

If you have damage on and no yellows, then drivers will not have the opportunity of fixing damage.

You need to have both, but if you decide to try just yellows and no damage; therer will need to be a severe penalty for anyone bring out a caution on purpose and a set of rules need to be established as to what would be considered as being done on purpose.

Ron's idea is good, but all it would take is 1 yellow to get back in the main bunch or from going a lap down.

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:19 pm

I was thinking about this after the ozzie race yesterday.

If you have yellows but no damage there is little reason to slow for an accident... you hit someone and you don't go down laps at all, you just loose a few positions and go at it again.

I think it will actually result in worse behaviour without the deterance of damaging the cars as you can try any kind of stupid shit and short of getting kicked and/or massive penalties applied you don't even drop dow one lap. Penalties = a lot of wor for someone keeping an eye on things, it may even come down to needing multiple race officials monitoring the event live.

Personally I'd like to see damage on as well.

EDIT: Didn't see Rons last post. Damage off initially makes sense however given that there could be many bumps as the field attempts to get lined up again.

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:28 pm

As I see it, this is a trial to see how yellows will affect our racing,
will there be endless yellow laps because we are irresponsible drivers? or will we watch our lines and try NOT to crash so we don't have to spend laps and laps getting bored

If we take it one step at a time,
1 work on the yellows
2 introduce damage later
we may find that everyones driving improves!

There will always be a bingle or two, but this is a trial not a series (if I've got it right)

i for one get annoyed having to play catch up all the time after a crash that usually (not always

) wasn't my fault

chronic · Post by **chronic** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:31 pm

I agree that yellows and damage go together, if you want the racing to be as true to life as it can be then there is no sense in being half-assed about it.

My real concern about yellows is that the races become more about following the pace car than actual racing but I suppose there is no harm in trialling it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:07 pm

chronic wrote:My real concern about yellows is that the races become more about following the pace car than actual racing but I suppose there is no harm in trialling it.

Yes we are aware of ye concerns,hence the focus on not causing the yellows.

damage will be on, and causing a yellow will cost you a lap