Nascar League - Season 4

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:22 pm

Way to go Bazzil

Post by **Jetboy** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:41 pm

cars would make for an interesting change...though as I think some have mentioned what about the new guys that have just got to grips with the CTS trucks....might take them a race or 3 to pick up on the cars so might be an idea to have a few pre-season races for everyone to get used to the new physics and feel of the cars

Teams of 5 sounds good as well, Skelo mentioned to me today about just taking the top 4 placings of the teams which for people that cant make every race night would still leave the teams in with a chance at the championship (ie if someone on your team cant make the race then you could still have 4 results)

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:50 pm

yes, top placing points for teams sounds good and fair, 5 man teams could be the go, but will we get enough for 5 man teams and a fairly good spread ?

Also I think you'll find anyone that can handle a truck doesn't have far to go to handle a car,

what's say for the next two wednesdays we run cup cars and see how we go

?

Sulley · Post by **Sulley** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:43 am

I'll give the cars a crack, but unsure of future involvement, as I've said previously I just don't get the satisfaction from CTS I'd hoped for, and now its post season I can be honest and say that the Monsters would've given the Dud's a better run without this particular backmarker.

I kept my negativity in check for most of the season but now its all over its just feels flat from a personal perspective, yes the Monsters did very well to keep the comp alive until the last couple of rounds, due in large part to great winning and consistent finishing by 3 outta 4 drivers. Very proud of you guys and thanks for giving it your all.

It seems obvious to me that Oval racing just doesn't suit me, I either have no luck or as usually the case insufficient skill to get anywhere half way decent often enough to feel like I'm making a positive improvement and contribution. My first ever top ten finish was a bright light in an otherwise gloomy season.

As I've said to Unbound more than once I have much more fun at Tuesday practice than I have ever had on race night, sad but true. Some of the crap that goes down, the wailing and nashing of teeth and pure vitriol of some of the post race stuff, just makes me wonder at times "Why are you partipating in this madness". I know the answer I wanna race and have fun, and while there's a will there's a way.

Another good point is unlike last time I didn't quit, the team responsibility and "take a licking and keep on trucking" approach was all that kept me going at too many times to count however.

I will give the future of the Monsters serious thought but its possible I will hand over the team to TonyG if he wants it and if the guys wanna continue.

I feel like I let the side down, its not feeling sorry for myself just frustrated at ripping myself or being ripped with monotonus regularity. The other part of the problem is an internal conflict between competitive desire and lack of skill/luck whathave you just end up with a guts ache.

Who knows if the 5 man team idea takes hold and you score the top four finishers, well that could be tailor made for me

Add to all, some pressure this end on the amount of time spent racing and practicing (if only the effort showed results) so I just don't know what involvement level I will have going forward.

Funny, given all of the above if I do flag it, I do know that I'll miss it, how F@#$% up is that.

Feck I fell better after getting that load off my mind.

"Thanks Doctor, cheers for listening, WHAT, how much per hour? Jeez what a ripoff, just gimme the drugs and I'm outta here"

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:03 am

Sulley wrote:I feel like I let the side down

Let me start with an emphatic "PFFFFFTTTTT". Let the side down my ass.

Your computer needs an ass kicking, how many races did you CTD once or twice a race? You still kept going every week helping the rest of us where you were able. Many a lesser driver would have given up but you've kept on trucking to bring in the points for the team that have allowed us to challenge the DuD's all season long. No team has even come so close to the DuD's before now!

Whether you continue or not, whether the Monsters continue or not, whether the world explodes in a fiery ball of doom tomorrow or not, it has been an honour and a privilege to race with you sir.

Too cheesy?

Oh and I voted trucks but I don't actually mind as long as we're racing.

Post by **Inspector** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:51 am

I voted Cars - I think we should have at least 2 weeks of practice for everyone to get used to them.

I would like to see 5 man teams but definitely not scoring the top 4 from the team. The whole purpose of having teams was so that every driver is involved. If you are the slowest man in the team and constantly coming last is does not matter. You are still driving for the team and have a reason for staying in the race. Didn't we explain this last time round?

I believe that the 2 and 3 man teams from last season should be forced to intergrate with other teams. Apart from drivers joining during a season, every one should be in a team. If there is a spare spot in a team, new drivers should be put into that team and be assisted into getting up to speed on "league racing" by his new team mates. If 5 man teams are the choice then no team should be allowed 5 top drivers. At least one driver should be a rookie or something. Put together 4 man teams of your mates and then the organisers should rate the rookies etc from drivers not in a team and they should be allocated. If a team holds more than 2 members from last seasons top ten then that team will be restricted to 4 members and will be appointed either the lowest rated rookie or if there are not enough competitors to fill all the teams with 5 members then that (those) teams with more than 2 top ten finishers will be forced to wait for the next new joining driver and take them onboard to assist/show the ropes etc.

If the above is too complicated for you all then stick with 4 man teams and force the smaller teams to join forces. Another option is to allow any team without a top ten finisher in it from last season to have 5 members whilst all other teams only have 4?

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:03 am

What Eagle said!
Hey Sulley it all comes down to ....if you wanna race, race...and it sounds like you do!!! Monsters wouldn't be the same without ya

I'm keen to race cars lets give it a try next week

GO MONSTERS

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:09 am

If we enforce teams it will cut out the casual racer who doesn't or can't race every week, no one will want someone in their team that can't commit to a full season.
I see your point Inspector but I think we should leave it as 4 per team and teams not compulsory UNLESS we have more than 43 drivers and casuals will be excluded

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:40 am

Ditto to what he said.

M · Post by M » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:04 am

I still think we should take the top 10 results of 12 races for each driver, as they do in other sports. This allows for discos, absences, bugs, rippings bad hair days and what-have-you.

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:14 am

M wrote:I still think we should take the top 10 results of 12 races for each driver, as they do in other sports. This allows for discos, absences, bugs, rippings bad hair days and what-have-you.

WHAT OTHER SPORTS? in particular what other racing car leagues? And
i won't except PS2 or XBOX as this is an Adult league.

M · Post by M » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:59 am

*Snore*

Bold · Post by **Bold** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:43 pm

In Kart racing you have 5 races on race day and you drop the worst one, just as an exampe for you Mattly. I would be happy to maybe drop one race out of 12, no more than that though.

As far as teams go, I say keep it at 4. Id rather have more teams racing close than a couple of larger teams. And all drivers should count in the points.

odonohuesp · Post by **odonohuesp** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:51 pm

M wrote:I still think we should take the top 10 results of 12 races for each driver, as they do in other sports. This allows for discos, absences, bugs, rippings bad hair days and what-have-you.

All I can think of is swimming when I hear about dropping the worst finish. You do not see Nascar allowing drivers to drop a percentage of their worse races.

I would like to see the 4 man teams return with a 12 race schedule and you will count the result of every race.

Also, I would like to see the next season start around the 18th of May. This will allow for some testing of the Cup cars and chance to revamp the current rules that are in place.

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:59 pm

Just a quick question, have you thought of the impact in changing to the cup cars with regards to the NZ vs. Aus races?

My 2 cents worth but you may want to get them involved, would be shame to lose those races.

Also I liked the idea of taking the top 4 for scoring out of 5 team members, but thats mainly due to the fact I'm off overseas for a week at the end of the month and I can just see myself missing both the nascar and stockcar first rounds of the new season, but oh well thats life.

Is it Wednesday yet?

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:19 pm

Wraith wrote:Just a quick question, have you thought of the impact in changing to the cup cars with regards to the NZ vs. Aus races?

My 2 cents worth but you may want to get them involved, would be shame to lose those races.

I can't see it making much difference, we can still race trucks when needed, paintjobs are already done

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:59 pm

What TonyG said, no trouble to chop over to trucks for an Aus vs NZ race

Re: dropping worst result points, they did that in V8 Supercars Mattly the year before last (or was it last year?) not sure if they still do it but they did do it at one stage.

No need to crack ya face off at M Mattly, this is just an ideas thread.

Also be sure to check the Teams http://www.simcentral.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=468
thread so we can organise teams

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:07 pm

I think one of the best things about the Nascar series is that there are a large number of people playing it, wouldn't you agree Bazzil?

By using a points system that encourages a driver to complete a race, if for no other reason than to help his team, we keep the drivers on the track and prevent many "disconnect tantrums". I believe that any form of drop worst result/race rule will only encourage drivers to give up.

I would like to think that when a race starts with 40 people, that 38-40 people will se it through to the end. With teams of 5 we could have 8 players drop before the end of a race!

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:50 pm

indeed, I can see sour faces now at the back of the grid that quit because their points won't count anyways

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:09 pm

i'd like to see a no points policy for retirements other than mechanical/technical reasons, espcially when theres no damage on.

another thought on the switch to cars - why fix something that aint broke.

after 3-4 seasons the racing is almost at the point where 50% of the feild is competitive, the other 50% just get ripped, switching would merely just throw the everyone back into a lottery race for 2 seasons.

perheps a restricted cup series could be run for those wanting addtional seat time in something other than trucks.

I am itching to do some short tracking myself, but not with 40 drivers.

M · Post by M » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:13 pm

You won't know what is your worst result unless you know you will be away. Either way, you're not going to quit on the assumption this will be a race that doesn't count.

UnbounD · Post by **UnbounD** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:24 pm

Hi there.

I voted cars. I voted cars as its nice to have a change, and with sponsership being an issue.
Nascar is not the most well known of series in NZ (not in any detail anyway) and CTS is evan less well known.

I think we need to establish the team size quickly!!

cheers

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:42 am

ronwest wrote:i'd like to see a no points policy for retirements other than mechanical/technical reasons, espcially when theres no damage on.

What situations would that actually help in? I don't think drivers should be penalised for parking it if they are off form one night for whatever reason. I'd rather someone who's having difficulty on a track for whatever reason park it up than continue because they are forced to and cause more accidents. If they rage quit it's probably better for everyone anyway as well

I don't think anyone should be forced into a team if they don't want to be in one. If new drivers want help finding a team then I'm sure every assistance can be given to bring them together with a team. If they want to drive solo for a season first that's cool too.

I'm against any league restrictions on the make-up of teams other than the maximum size. While the idea of one rookie per team is nice it's not really practical, there is no way of being sure there will be the appropriate number of rookies to teams and some people can't make all the races and can't be sure of exactly how many races they will make.

The teams aspect of racing is a lot of fun but people want to be able to be with a team of their choosing with people they can communicate and get along with. Any forced teams would just detract from the experience,

I think there could easily be 5 or 6 highly competitive teams next season for the top places. Obviously there will be favorites but we really do have a good number of very capable drivers racing now. Where's the fun if there aren't some underdogs? Everyone loves an underdog

4 seems to be a good number for the team size. A drop to 3 member would probably tighten things in the top few teams but move them even further from the rest which isn't ideal. Increasing to 5 members might help but considering only 19 drivers of the 46 in the points table actually made all the races in season 3 I don't think it's a great idea.

My vote is to keep the team system the same. Smaller teams should be encouraged to merge but certainly not forced. Maybe we could have random teams for anyone that doesn't have a team and wants one? Just to get as many as possible involved in the teams aspect. Still not forced though

Dropping points from worst race over a season for each driver... I can see the benefits but I just don't like the idea

Top 5 need to stay at the back no doubt. That's been a great rule imo. Maybe it could be extended, say, the top 3 teams have to take there highest placing driver who would be allowed to qual under current rules and say they can't qual either. Although the more I think about it.. while it would probably tighten up the team points it would screw the individual points something chronic.

Anyone else got any ideas for ways to make the team points race a bit closer?

Snake Rogers · Post by **Snake Rogers** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:25 am

I don't believe anyone should be forced to join a team or make it compulsory to have one rookie driver.
Never mind if a driver leaves a race then they should still get points, like eagle says they could be having a real bad night and causing carnage on the track.

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:36 am

Good points there Eagle

The teams concept is only a couple of seasons old. If we're switching to cars instead of trucks, perhaps we should only tweak one thing at a time in each season ? Otherwise we're trying to reinvent the wheel and make a perfect league.

* teams of a max of 4 worked well for season 2 & 3
* there will always be strong teams and weaker teams
* points did work well, but those people who quit a race because of a bad mood should really get absolute minimum points (say 10 points), it's so low that leaving really hurts their chances in the points table, so becomes an encouragement not to leave a race. But if people are in a bad pissed off mood while racing, then they should leave the race.

Another minor thing, but ideally there should be a paint template with logos and names for all, but paint schemes become whatever the teams want.

That way, the trucks look similar with names and logos (which looks better on videos) but the indivdual team colours and styles remain unique.

If we can keep the paint scheme in mind, it does look a ton better on the videos - look at how nice the NZ trucks turned out. But it still gives everyone the choice for paint schemes, like the stylish graduated scheme BiteMe had in season 1.

KiwiSimRacing

Nascar League - Season 4

Cars or Trucks