NZ - Aussie Race Update (5/5/05)

[TonyG]

Don't worry about it skuzz.
They are just a bunch of amateurs who need learn how to race online.

Due to lag issues i believe alot of the percieved bad driving probably wasn't that bad. It's true that some of the tactics used by the Aussies were abit unscrupulous, but hey we won and we shouldn't tarnish our reputation with other countries by slagging them off. We are better than that.

my 2 cents.

That's a very PC thing to say Mattly, but there were a large number of blocking issues and squeezing, the reasons were that the opposition don't race together normally and as a whole don't race the same way we do.
They are mostly road racers and wouldn't have a clue what to do on an oval, there was one called Ellison who, if I didn't give way to would have taken me out half a dozen times.


The cure is practice, if they had at least turned up for the practice race we would have known what we were in for

[]-[ITMAN]

G’day guys, congratulations to the New Zealand team for another victory, well done guys. Seems from where I was sitting most of that was spent up on the high line, good racing you all again. Go grab a cold beer, this post goes longer than last nights race.

Now for the post race debrief and I know there’s a bit to get through as there have been posts flying around and a hell of a lot of talk both on track and off. These Australia vs New Zealand Truck Tests have been raced with a level of intensity that few of us are used too in our usual league races. There’s also the fact that we’re racing really only one adversary on track and there’s 20 of them in the mix that complicates matters. Also the fact that it’s a different race format that will take more than two attempts to get it right. No amount of name calling and bitching about who did what really helps anyone. I’m pretty happy overall with the pit entry, a few accidents accepted but at least it wasn’t the shambles we had in race one. Besides a few guys running high out of the pits, which was always going to happen, overall that part of the event seemed to go well. Both teams blocked, either intentionally or by the actions of one driver running low to let team mates go high, we all saw it happen. I for one wasn’t surprised but it’s our own fault for not wrapping some rules around these eventualities, something we’d have to fix up for the next one I’d say.

We’ve all got the replay and we certainly all saw (and heard via voice comms from our team mates) a bunch of stuff that wouldn’t call sporting. Both sides are guilty to varying degrees of pushing their luck but overall its pretty stupid to slag off an entire team and series because you’ve been taken out by a few rouge drivers who you’ll probably never race against anyway. We were always going to have more than a few incidents, the big one on lap eight was always going to happen, I was counting the laps down and leaving enough room to avoid the mayhem (unfortunately the guy behind me didn’t). Overall, looking at the entire race from the perspective of it being an international teams event, of course its going to be run at an intensity that’s a level higher and harder than a normal league race. What’s tougher, Wallaby’s vs All Blacks or a game of touch down the local park? Combine that with the lack of any real repercussions that you’d normally find in any form of league racing and the door is left very open for a few individuals to lose their heads and do things in hindsight they’ll regret later.

Clearly Daytona’s a fair bit tighter than Tally and the high line doesn’t leave much room for error but overall I saw a hell of a lot of racing and no more incidents than what there would be in a normal league event run with these rules. I think the increased competitive nature of things just compounds the events that unfold on track and the team aspect means guys who are a lap or two down are still in the event and can effect the outcome.

I know a few guys have said things in the heat of the moment which is always regrettable but let’s not forget that any new type of event like these races will have a few growing pains. However I for one will remember that start when both teams sorted themselves out into two trains which will look awesome in the movie. I think any talk of people not racing in future teams events is a bit premature, don’t let the actions of a few guys (from both sides) ruin the enjoyment of the races themselves and the series for everyone.

The series was always going to be best of three (well done Kiwi’s), and with the scores being two – zip, there’s the matter of race three. I think it’s definitely way too early to start discussing whether they’ll be another Truck Test Match until things settle down and the emotion of the event subsides. Both sides getting upset about driving standards and posts on forums etc and so forth just makes everyone (particularly both clubs and all members) look bad in my opinion.

I had a good chat with Mal (Team Captain Australia) after the event and if there’s a third race it’ll be run quite a bit differently than the first two to keep some order in proceedings. I think from an Australian perspective and no offense to all the guys who’ve raced for us in the first two events we need to field a team of oval specialists to be truly competitive against the Kiwi’s. The ASRG is an awesome club which has run oval series in the past, but to be honest we’re mostly road racers, the majority being GPL’ers which begs the question why the hell I’d challenge you guys in a series of truck races on super speedways, the challenge perhaps or am I insane?

I reckon some of the incidents caused from the green and gold side of the fence could no doubt be put down to inexperience on ovals and the fact that all these guys don’t regularly race against each other coming from three separate clubs ASRG, ATR and AOR, but in the end no excuses really. I’d like to see a third race in a few months time and I’d also expect the majority of this new Aussie team to come from ATR, maybe 10 existing ASRG/AOR runners and 10 guys Mal can pick from ATR running in his truck series over there. In hindsight we probably should have done that this time but thought the home ground advantage would enable us to draft that little bit closer and that would be the difference. The lack of practice was another story all together which would be fixed by just getting the best guys from an existing Truck league rather than teaching a bunch of roadies how to turn left for a hundred laps on an oval.

Comparing the teams, we have the NZ team who race together on ovals week in week out with using these rules (no damage, no yellows etc) running against Team OZ made up of a bunch of good racers in their respected disciplines, Ovals, GPL, TA’s etc from separate clubs and with at least half the team you could count their oval race experience on one hand. I think we did pretty bloody well all things considered. Actually we must be doing something right because we’ve at least been competitive. Racing etiquette in GPL in the AC is very different from turn 1 at Daytona in a truck with no damage and no yellows. I’m not making excuses as such (sort of), just pointing out there’s different etiquette and styles needed to run on ovals and we’re all ego maniacs who’d rather die than be passed at the best of times so there’s always going to be hard competitive racing. We do however need to sort out some formal rules on blocking and how to deal with guys driving around and intentionally or (accidentally on purpose) running into guys that have had them off in the laps before. I don’t believe we should pull the plug due to the actions of a few people, but concentrate on making these events better for all competitors. I think its awesome racing in national colours and working with 20 guys I’m normally running into each week.

In closing I think we owe it to ourselves to finish off the series (Michigan BR or Indy anyone?), in a few months time and possibly look at running a separate one off roadie for a teams test (GTP or TA’s) which would probably be a little better supported and easier to organize. I had a ball racing last night and I’m sure the vast majority of guys racing did also. Congratulations to Team Kiwi and thanks again to Mal, Richo, Kenny, Justin and Prom & Ron, and the ASRG committee and members for two kick arse events, thanks guys for some awesome racing! I for one am looking forward to future events along these lines and hope we all can learn a few lessons from last night and move on…

Cheers,

HITMAN.

[Flyboy69]

Very nice post Hitman, well put.

[Riven]

Found out why the InSPire Net wireless customers were pinging so high.. We assume the server is on Optus, as they dont accept Telstra nationally, so we went via Los Angles still pinged not bad considering

[rob_c]

Although I couldn't make the second race, I've just watched the first half of the replay.

I have to agree with everyone about the first 8 laps . . . awesome stuff . . . you should all be very proud . . . I would have liked to have seen a graph of all your adrenalin levels. :-)

I saw a bit of warp from one aussie car that appears to cause one of the biggies.

Some guys have said in previous posts, about there not being stiffer rules . . . which I think would be a good thing . . . because these "2 Team Events" are a totally different style of racing that I don't think any of us had actually done before these 2 races ?

Maybe someone has been thru similar racing in other leagues or with the americans, who could give us some pointers ?

It was also said that some drivers were a bit "Gung Ho" at times because there weren't any Penalties . . . well . . . why CAN'T Post-Race penalties be applied ? . . . just as in the normal leagues that both the Aussies and the Kiwis have ? . . . I realize that it might be harder to see things impartially, but wouldn't it be better than none at all ?

A possible scenario would be for a driver to lodge a protest, allow each of the drivers involved to give their version of the event, then each of the 40 drivers view the replay and VOTE . . . "Trial By Your Peers" as it were.

One thing that rarely comes up in normal racing, but is quite likely to regularly occur with "2 Teams", is what happens when there are two rival trains (one high and one low) and they come upon a single lapped car ? . . . . no points for guessing that the single car will take the line that his team-mates AREN'T using, as he will be considerably slower than either train . . . that will mean that the rival train has to make a third line . . . and there is the PROBABILITY that it will end in tears.

Also, it might be a good idea for the 40 drivers to simply get online and have a NON TEAM event sometime . . . simply to get to know each other . . . and yes . . . before the Kiwi's say anything, I realize that you all took the time to turn up to the Practice Session but few of us Aussies did.

Anyway . . . congratulations to both teams . . . and especially to the Kiwis for the series win.

[Skuzzlebutt]

It is most certainly a unique form of racing having two teams like we do.

In regard to Hitmans post, having found out that many of the Aussie guys weren't all that familiar with oval racing it certainly could explain why there appeared to be so much squeezing going on by the green and golds. My earlier comment about not racing in a teams event such as this again would definitely be reconsidered if you managed to round up a team of oval entusiasts.

My run in with the slanderous 'Trev' is a seperate matter, and quite frankly one that I'm disappointed hasn't been dealt with by one of the Aussie organisers. It really has tainted what was for me an otherwise enjoyable race.

[TonyG]

If the series is to continue it definitely needs a set of rules.

I don't believe these races are any different than the league races we run weekly (for those that run in a team)
there is still a team, it is just bigger, and I didn't see any times when the NZ team didn't work together

The races need a commitee, the review of protests by 40 drivers would be just too cumbersome to work rob, a group of 2 nzers and 2 aussies would be all that is needed, can't see any way of having an odd number of people though, one to act as a tie breaker.

We have a great set of rules for our league, they would fit in nicely.

The real issue though is that BOTH teams have to know how to oval race (as Hitman said) until that is sorted, not much else will change

[]-[ITMAN]

I guarrantee that he next Aussie Team will have 19 oval specialists (plus myself if they want to include me). Unlike you guys there's in effect six sim racing clubs/communities in OZ and they don't all get on with each other. I'd expect a whole new team for race 3 and these guys will all be hardcore oval racers, you have been warned...

Rest assured, 2 judges on the night making calls, such as black flagging or ejecting silly buggers one from each country in a seperate voice channel would work. Might also be cool to throw /boss yellow flags to bunch up the pack once or twice, but turn them off for every incident. Not sure if that's possible.

We also need to look closely at the rules so that it helps promote racing a bit more and strategy, such as moderate damage, even yellows etc.