Good point. I'm unsure how that came about but, sure, I'll get it fixed.Prometheus wrote: Side issue - any chance of changing your race name to match what you've registered as please ? That way people keep a simple eye on who's who.
Cheers.
Nascar CTS League - Race 1 Daytona Int Speedway (Night)
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Chequers
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:18 pm
- Location: Wellington
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Eagle32
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:31 pm
- Contact:
Caution - More post than you can handle?
Doug, Inspector and Snake all gained some extra respect from me (not worth anything but hey :P) for trucking on through the entire race after various early problems that knocked them right to the back.
Now for the promised constructive criticism. I also came up with some more general Rookie tips like the "2 cans takes the same time as four tires" which, while we all know, new drivers don't. That however can wait to be added to the how to race ovals and what not thread another day.
Disclaimer: I still really consider myself a Rookie with only one season and a few additional off season races under my belt but I know how this lot can be so I figure I'll try and provide a constructive review of the rookie drivers from my limited knowledge base
Rookies in General
Generally very well behaved, a lot better than some of us on our first race and I'm sure they are all going to be pushing for top 10 placings very quickly. I think the universal problem for any new driver is being nervous, they all seem to have handled this very well staying out of the way and only slowing themselves down on the tail end of the drafts if they've clipped a wall.
G Robinson
Showing good skills approaching the start/finish line at start of race dodging threw the carnage caused by a wheelie bin related incident by having his eyes open and slowing to slip through rather than just trying to punch through at speed.
Something common to most of the rookies is not going right down to the apex in corners. This is fine when no other cars are around or your in a single file draft and Snake cries if you don't.
Sensible driving not attempting to block a faster draft train about 1/3rd through race, lost a couple of positions but kept things safe and jumped straight on the back end of the draft. d_
Big Al
Good drafting in general. One passing move went wrong exiting turn 4 when he bounced off the wall and took out Mikool on the rebound. Shit happens you live you learn.
About 20 laps to go a bit keen, moving up the draft by going low on the straight past other cars in draft forcing them to stay high in corner. None of them were for position so what did you achieve? Remember your using less fuel at the back of the draft as well!
Overall a pretty damn good drive letting the drafts past and tagging on the end. Some bad luck didn't help you when you got caught up in a couple of accidents or you could have placed even higher in the points.
Wide Load
Like G Robinson you can feel free to hug the apex a bit tighter when your not 2 wide.
1st pit stop, you picked a hell of a time to make it, right with everyone else. I don't know about you but I would have made me damn nervous. Initially it looks like your not sure which is your pit (a good lesson, paint your pit crew so you can see them easily and know where your pit stall is) a full stop in the pit lane was probably not the best way to look for it however. It was however not your fault that you got bumped out as you then tried to enter the pit stall, the other car should have been driving in the right hand pit lane especially given his pit stall was right at the far end of the pit, you know who you are :P
Also on pitting, remember to check that mirror before pulling out of your stall and make sure all is clear, Mikool would appreciate it I'm sure. And so would I *cough*Prozac on his last stop*cough*
I know sometimes you can't see a car in the mirror till it's about to hit you, especially in the pits so incidents do happen.
Same comments apply as to Big Al with regards to drafting and giving way on the track to the faster drivers, good stuff.
Redvalient
Firstly. Sorry if it seems like I'm singling you out Red. I'm not trying to it's just your driving, while good from the point of view that you have good control over your car and where it goes, was a little on the aggressive side and resulted in a few heated comments on "vent"trilo. Don't worry about that though, most comments in vent. while racing 1/2 of a meter from another car at 180+ MPH are some what strained
Breaking up a draft by sliding underneath the cars in front of you helps no one. It slows the whole draft down and being at the front means your burning the most fuel. Lap 9, slightly over 10% of the way into the race it gains you the scorn of other drivers and that's about it. The draft as a whole wants to keep the speed up so all of you can catch the cars that are off ahead of you. This is pretty important from a play nice with others point of view. Lap 70 it happens again except your now in 24th and your doing it to the guy in 2nd! (Another few times in the middle but these are extreme examples of when you really really shouldn't be getting up to this kind of thing)
Your quite right, you drive one of the tightest lines out of the new drivers with some of the closest drafting BUT if you watch some of the top drivers that are now into their 3rd season who don't twitch at all in the corners and sit inches off each others bumpers you'll understand why they might say your line isn't perfect
Also the old hands are always suspicious of rookie drivers, that's just the way it is. They don't know how a rookie drives and they are worried a rookie might do something unexpected and cause chaos. They are happy to have the rookie sit behind them and tow the rookie round the track if the rookie can keep up. Some will deny this and rightly so, others will deny it but you listen to the conversation on vent. when they come up behind a rookie and the fact they want to be ahead of you becomes apparent very quickly
As an aside ventrilo is extremely useful during the race. It's very easy to talk to someone and say. "Look your doing well but the whole draft can get moving a bit faster if you'll let someone a bit faster lead." It saves a lot of grief and second guessing as to what the people around you are thinking.
An example of something that frustrated those of us behind you on lap 25. We were talking on vent. and weren't happy with the speed we were making (there was a 3 car draft behind us catching our 5 car draft) so we elected to drop low on the straight and move past to try and speed things up. You then dropped down and blocked us. Now at this stage of the race dropping a couple of positions and running faster overall is much more beneficial, you really don't need to worry about being the front car (assuming the cars are for position) till the last 5 to maybe 10 laps of the race. Blocking maneuvers tend to frustrate drivers and that sometimes causes people to attempt un-wise passing moves which result in accidents which is VERY bad for everyone
The end result of this particular adventure was a touch as you came together with skuzzlebutt as he edged alongside behind you that nearly took you both out, as it was you both recovered well but the draft was taken apart by a wreck in the next corner and the scrumpy cars slipped off ahead. While you were lucky enough to be close enough to reel them back in the rest of us weren't after dodging the mayhem which while ok for you makes other people feel less than charitable.
*Stern Voice* Passing below the yellow line is a strict no no. When it results in you taking out the car in 3rd position when you come back up from below the line it will get you in a lot of trouble if it becomes a habit. (Hey it was my team mate
, lap 61 on the replay from your cars point of view) Another example there in the crash recovery of being careful of other drivers. Pat got the raw end again 
That was the only silly thing I saw you do. The rest is all about how to drive ovals and just the fact that a more strategical approach is needed than just "Pass all the cars".
Mikool
Mikool, Mikool, Mikool. I know there is the Wheelie Bin reputation to maintain but even Biteme waits till after he's gotten over the start line to cause chaos
You and Typhoon have got full experienced teams behind you so they will have to comment on your race if they want to. It's taken me several hours to write this as it is with the number of times I've watched through the replay at high speed and I'm too tired to do anymore
With regard to the initial start problem. I've now watched it about 20 times while I've been watching the new drivers racing to try and provide this feedback. I don't believe it was caused by drivers hanging back to charge at all. The problem appears to have occurred when Inspector was forced to drive off the road due to his technical problems. The driver behind him in his lane was Pat Lynch (you Chequers?) and Big Al was in the inside lane. I'm assuming they were both going slowly expecting Inspector to get back in position or for the crew chiefs to tell them they could over take him and therefore catch the rest of the bunch?
The actual accident was caused by all the cars catching up to the pack again. Specifically Mikool failed to slow down behind Pat as quickly as he slowed and made contact with him. Just and unfortunate set of circumstances that occurred resulting in an incident.
It was basically all the rookie drivers behind Pat Lynch so I think the whole thing probably threw them a bit. I don't believe they were trying to get a flying start at all.
As a side note. I heard someone else saying they weren't getting any power in 2nd gear at the start. I had the same problem, shifting down then back up again fixed it but it was a bit odd. Anyone else have any weird problems?
(EDIT: Must spell check before posting)
Now for the promised constructive criticism. I also came up with some more general Rookie tips like the "2 cans takes the same time as four tires" which, while we all know, new drivers don't. That however can wait to be added to the how to race ovals and what not thread another day.
Disclaimer: I still really consider myself a Rookie with only one season and a few additional off season races under my belt but I know how this lot can be so I figure I'll try and provide a constructive review of the rookie drivers from my limited knowledge base
Rookies in General
Generally very well behaved, a lot better than some of us on our first race and I'm sure they are all going to be pushing for top 10 placings very quickly. I think the universal problem for any new driver is being nervous, they all seem to have handled this very well staying out of the way and only slowing themselves down on the tail end of the drafts if they've clipped a wall.
G Robinson
Showing good skills approaching the start/finish line at start of race dodging threw the carnage caused by a wheelie bin related incident by having his eyes open and slowing to slip through rather than just trying to punch through at speed.
Something common to most of the rookies is not going right down to the apex in corners. This is fine when no other cars are around or your in a single file draft and Snake cries if you don't.
Sensible driving not attempting to block a faster draft train about 1/3rd through race, lost a couple of positions but kept things safe and jumped straight on the back end of the draft. d_
Big Al
Good drafting in general. One passing move went wrong exiting turn 4 when he bounced off the wall and took out Mikool on the rebound. Shit happens you live you learn.
About 20 laps to go a bit keen, moving up the draft by going low on the straight past other cars in draft forcing them to stay high in corner. None of them were for position so what did you achieve? Remember your using less fuel at the back of the draft as well!
Overall a pretty damn good drive letting the drafts past and tagging on the end. Some bad luck didn't help you when you got caught up in a couple of accidents or you could have placed even higher in the points.
Wide Load
Like G Robinson you can feel free to hug the apex a bit tighter when your not 2 wide.
1st pit stop, you picked a hell of a time to make it, right with everyone else. I don't know about you but I would have made me damn nervous. Initially it looks like your not sure which is your pit (a good lesson, paint your pit crew so you can see them easily and know where your pit stall is
) a full stop in the pit lane was probably not the best way to look for it however. It was however not your fault that you got bumped out as you then tried to enter the pit stall, the other car should have been driving in the right hand pit lane especially given his pit stall was right at the far end of the pit, you know who you are :PAlso on pitting, remember to check that mirror before pulling out of your stall and make sure all is clear, Mikool would appreciate it I'm sure. And so would I *cough*Prozac on his last stop*cough*
I know sometimes you can't see a car in the mirror till it's about to hit you, especially in the pits so incidents do happen. Same comments apply as to Big Al with regards to drafting and giving way on the track to the faster drivers, good stuff.
Redvalient
Firstly. Sorry if it seems like I'm singling you out Red. I'm not trying to it's just your driving, while good from the point of view that you have good control over your car and where it goes, was a little on the aggressive side and resulted in a few heated comments on "vent"trilo. Don't worry about that though, most comments in vent. while racing 1/2 of a meter from another car at 180+ MPH are some what strained
Breaking up a draft by sliding underneath the cars in front of you helps no one. It slows the whole draft down and being at the front means your burning the most fuel. Lap 9, slightly over 10% of the way into the race it gains you the scorn of other drivers and that's about it. The draft as a whole wants to keep the speed up so all of you can catch the cars that are off ahead of you. This is pretty important from a play nice with others point of view. Lap 70 it happens again except your now in 24th and your doing it to the guy in 2nd! (Another few times in the middle but these are extreme examples of when you really really shouldn't be getting up to this kind of thing)
Your quite right, you drive one of the tightest lines out of the new drivers with some of the closest drafting BUT if you watch some of the top drivers that are now into their 3rd season who don't twitch at all in the corners and sit inches off each others bumpers you'll understand why they might say your line isn't perfect
Also the old hands are always suspicious of rookie drivers, that's just the way it is. They don't know how a rookie drives and they are worried a rookie might do something unexpected and cause chaos. They are happy to have the rookie sit behind them and tow the rookie round the track if the rookie can keep up. Some will deny this and rightly so, others will deny it but you listen to the conversation on vent. when they come up behind a rookie and the fact they want to be ahead of you becomes apparent very quickly
As an aside ventrilo is extremely useful during the race. It's very easy to talk to someone and say. "Look your doing well but the whole draft can get moving a bit faster if you'll let someone a bit faster lead." It saves a lot of grief and second guessing as to what the people around you are thinking.
An example of something that frustrated those of us behind you on lap 25. We were talking on vent. and weren't happy with the speed we were making (there was a 3 car draft behind us catching our 5 car draft) so we elected to drop low on the straight and move past to try and speed things up. You then dropped down and blocked us. Now at this stage of the race dropping a couple of positions and running faster overall is much more beneficial, you really don't need to worry about being the front car (assuming the cars are for position) till the last 5 to maybe 10 laps of the race. Blocking maneuvers tend to frustrate drivers and that sometimes causes people to attempt un-wise passing moves which result in accidents which is VERY bad for everyone
The end result of this particular adventure was a touch as you came together with skuzzlebutt as he edged alongside behind you that nearly took you both out, as it was you both recovered well but the draft was taken apart by a wreck in the next corner and the scrumpy cars slipped off ahead. While you were lucky enough to be close enough to reel them back in the rest of us weren't after dodging the mayhem which while ok for you makes other people feel less than charitable.
*Stern Voice* Passing below the yellow line is a strict no no. When it results in you taking out the car in 3rd position when you come back up from below the line it will get you in a lot of trouble if it becomes a habit. (Hey it was my team mate
, lap 61 on the replay from your cars point of view) Another example there in the crash recovery of being careful of other drivers. Pat got the raw end again That was the only silly thing I saw you do. The rest is all about how to drive ovals and just the fact that a more strategical approach is needed than just "Pass all the cars".
Mikool
Mikool, Mikool, Mikool. I know there is the Wheelie Bin reputation to maintain but even Biteme waits till after he's gotten over the start line to cause chaos
You and Typhoon have got full experienced teams behind you so they will have to comment on your race if they want to. It's taken me several hours to write this as it is with the number of times I've watched through the replay at high speed and I'm too tired to do anymore
With regard to the initial start problem. I've now watched it about 20 times while I've been watching the new drivers racing to try and provide this feedback. I don't believe it was caused by drivers hanging back to charge at all. The problem appears to have occurred when Inspector was forced to drive off the road due to his technical problems. The driver behind him in his lane was Pat Lynch (you Chequers?) and Big Al was in the inside lane. I'm assuming they were both going slowly expecting Inspector to get back in position or for the crew chiefs to tell them they could over take him and therefore catch the rest of the bunch?
The actual accident was caused by all the cars catching up to the pack again. Specifically Mikool failed to slow down behind Pat as quickly as he slowed and made contact with him. Just and unfortunate set of circumstances that occurred resulting in an incident.
It was basically all the rookie drivers behind Pat Lynch so I think the whole thing probably threw them a bit. I don't believe they were trying to get a flying start at all.
As a side note. I heard someone else saying they weren't getting any power in 2nd gear at the start. I had the same problem, shifting down then back up again fixed it but it was a bit odd. Anyone else have any weird problems?
(EDIT: Must spell check before posting)
Cop: Are you OK?
Randolph: I don't know. I'm kinda ****ed up in general, so it's hard to gauge.
- Death to Smoochy
Randolph: I don't know. I'm kinda ****ed up in general, so it's hard to gauge.
- Death to Smoochy
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Sulley
- Posts: 3749
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:56 pm
- Location: Wellington
Wow Eagle what a brilliant analysis effort.
When you recover from this mammoth effort, please do me a favour and look at my driving, I know its bad but after 2 leagues there is no visible improvement and the feedback would be appreciated.
I can organise a team well enough, its the driving I have the trouble with, and no I'm NOT looking for public debate, so PM me or email would be cool, if and when you have the time or inclination.
When you recover from this mammoth effort, please do me a favour and look at my driving, I know its bad but after 2 leagues there is no visible improvement and the feedback would be appreciated.
I can organise a team well enough, its the driving I have the trouble with, and no I'm NOT looking for public debate, so PM me or email would be cool, if and when you have the time or inclination.
"Hey, did you lose weight, or a limb?"
Sulley – James P. “Sulley” Sullivan
"Laughter has more power than screams"
Sulley – James P. “Sulley” Sullivan
"Laughter has more power than screams"
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RedValiant
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:18 am
- Location: Seattle WA
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Jay
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:54 pm
- Location: Okinawa Japan
Ok...I'm confused. I have downloaded this thing twice already and I am unable to load the replay. I am still able to load other replays for Daytona-Night and other tracks.Riven wrote:After much pestering, here is the replay.
CTS Round 1
I will note, that I am unable to load the replay I saved myself either. Does anyone have any ideas?
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odonohuesp
- Posts: 1005
- Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:36 pm
- Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin USA
- Contact:
This should have been my post. Jay was over for beer and chlli and the race last night and I had him log in so I could upload his avatar. I guess we never logged him out.Jay#224 wrote:Ok...I'm confused. I have downloaded this thing twice already and I am unable to load the replay. I am still able to load other replays for Daytona-Night and other tracks.Riven wrote:After much pestering, here is the replay.
CTS Round 1
I will note, that I am unable to load the replay I saved myself either. Does anyone have any ideas?
Odie
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Chequers
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:18 pm
- Location: Wellington
Great effort Eagle32. Even some of Inspector's better efforts pale in comparison. I accept your description of the start line chaos and that it was not a rookie 'charge'.
TAKE NOTE EVERYONE WHO WAS MENTIONED IN EAGLE'S POST.
The best way that we can thank him for his effort is to take on board the lessons and apply them.
Next race is going to be a cracker!!
TAKE NOTE EVERYONE WHO WAS MENTIONED IN EAGLE'S POST.
The best way that we can thank him for his effort is to take on board the lessons and apply them.
Next race is going to be a cracker!!
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Snake Rogers
- Bloody SimTV!
- Posts: 1288
- Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:56 pm
- Location: Auckland
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Eagle32
- Posts: 1150
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Do you get an error loading the replay (if so what is it?) or is the replay not listed in the list of replays?odonohuesp wrote:Ok...I'm confused. I have downloaded this thing twice already and I am unable to load the replay. I am still able to load other replays for Daytona-Night and other tracks.
I will note, that I am unable to load the replay I saved myself either. Does anyone have any ideas?
If it's the latter then you need to have the appropriate mod selected when you go to the replay screen. If you are on TPTCC you will only see replays of races recorded using that mod. Likewise for CTS.
Cop: Are you OK?
Randolph: I don't know. I'm kinda ****ed up in general, so it's hard to gauge.
- Death to Smoochy
Randolph: I don't know. I'm kinda ****ed up in general, so it's hard to gauge.
- Death to Smoochy
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odonohuesp
- Posts: 1005
- Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:36 pm
- Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin USA
- Contact:
Thanks Eagle.....The only error I get is unable to load replay. First time this has happened to me in 2 years. Actually first times its happened since I started racing on Nascar 3.
I seemed insulted. Just kidding Eagl, I know you are trying to help. Anyway, I have no idea what has caused this. I'll give it another download when I get home from work and see what happend.
I seemed insulted.
Just kidding Eagl, I know you are trying to help. Anyway, I have no idea what has caused this. I'll give it another download when I get home from work and see what happend.Odie
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Eagle32
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mikool
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Re: Caution - More post than you can handle?
I know I made a mess up with the start and said sorry for that on page 3Eagle32 wrote:
Mikool, Mikool, Mikool. I know there is the Wheelie Bin reputation to maintain but even Biteme waits till after he's gotten over the start line to cause chaos
. The fact is I just made a f$%kup. Trying to catch up to Pat, not slowing down in time made me hit him and you know the rest. (sorry Pat and the rest of ya's you got caught up in that)
My team does give me good advice. I just have to try do what they say, which I think i am getting better at each time I race.
Last edited by mikool on Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mikool...
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mikool
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Not to worry. I made enough trouble so not going to complainwide load wrote:Great post eagle. Help like that is what is needed for this rookie. After watching the replay I can say my pitstops can only get better. And a big oops and sorry to Mikool for that touch in the pits.
Mikool...
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odonohuesp
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Flyboy69
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Re: Caution - More post than you can handle?
mikool wrote:I know I made a mess up with the start and said sorry for that on page 3Eagle32 wrote:
Mikool, Mikool, Mikool. I know there is the Wheelie Bin reputation to maintain but even Biteme waits till after he's gotten over the start line to cause chaos
The fact is I just made a f$%kup. Trying to catch up to Pat, not slowing down in time made me hit him and you know the rest. (sorry Pat and the rest of ya's you got caught up in that)
My team does give me good advice. I just have to try do what they say, which I think i am getting better at each time I race.
Not really your fault. I watched the replay and blame it on Inspector for suddenly pulling of the track
and you just wanted to catch the pack.-
Inspector
- Team DuD Motorsport
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Re: Caution - More post than you can handle?
Flyboy69 wrote: Not really your fault. I watched the replay and blame it on Inspector for suddenly pulling of the track
Sorry guys, joined the grid and as we moved off I discovered I had no steering so consequently I had no control over where the car went - had to take a tow back to the pits so I could recalibrate and all was good, except I was nearly 3 laps down by time I got going again.
Inspector
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