GTR Stress test tuesday 24/5/05

odonohuesp · Post by **odonohuesp** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:17 pm

I may be there....I need to talk to the better half and find out the plans for this evening.

Snake Rogers · Post by **Snake Rogers** » Tue May 24, 2005 5:26 pm

i should be there after 8.30pm

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Tue May 24, 2005 5:27 pm

bollocks movie is booked out :P

why don't all the geeks go watch something else

juliant · Post by **juliant** » Tue May 24, 2005 6:00 pm

I'm hoping a guy at work (Mach) will be there. Don't know if I'll be on for too long though - buggered today.

Can we have an understanding that we dont vote to the next session (race) once we get to the 5 minute warm-up session.

So whats the best NGT car to use?

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Tue May 24, 2005 6:15 pm

Does NGT mean NGT or NGT + GT3 + GT2 ?

Guess I'll find out when I join

Sulley · Post by **Sulley** » Tue May 24, 2005 6:44 pm

Eagle32 wrote:Does NGT mean NGT or NGT + GT3 + GT2 ?

Guess I'll find out when I join

NGT=Not GT

=> Low spec Ferraris and Porsches.

My pick the 911 GT3 RS, less taily than other porsches and not so much understeer as 360 Modena.

I bags the bright orange RS like last night, scary colour goes with scary driving

Happy · Post by **Happy** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:31 pm

I shall be there

Liquid · Post by **Liquid** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm

http://www.simracerhq.co.nz/gtrls/live.php

To see whos on the server

Agent X20 · Post by **Agent X20** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:21 pm

Great fun that session.

Joined after the Magny Cours race.

At Enna I started at the back and witnessed all sorts of cars popping in and out, and hordes people crashing as a result. Got caught in a couple of crashes at the start then started plugging in the laps... and finished third. Pretty damned chuffed with that result!!

Second race at Brno, there were the same problems with cars appearing out of nowhere parked on the track. The start was a shambles. Pretty crazy stuff. Once again I started right from the back and battled through. End of the race I found myself in second place so again I was mighty mighty pleased with the result.

Not too bad from the back I reckon.

In terms of general observations, there's a fair bit of blocking going on from folks who aren't on hot laps in practice holding up those on hot laps. Recovery on the track seems generally pretty good with consideration given to those still on the black stuff. Within the races I observed a few nutter attempted passes. One on me by Bazz was a classic with him passing me in the red mist down the inside but barrelling into poor old Monza 'cause he was never going to haul it in. So a few rough'n ready moves but generally some very good racing with room given and clear lines being driven.

So all in all pretty good. No major warping except for the invisible car problem on the grid...

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:27 pm

It was fine once the field spread out a bit but the cars popping in when you caught up to a ding was pretty bad :/

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:46 pm

yah, usualy on my passing manuvers, it all starts off well, but then i'm forced onto the dirt on the edge of the track, or sometimes the grass, and she all falls to bits from there really

Sulley · Post by **Sulley** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:47 am

Was interesting times, first race (Enna) was great until Famin didn't follow his own Mantra and punted me off. Another spin after that trying to hard to recover, gave up in disgust.

In comparison great couple of laps trying to hold off Bazz, he waited and pulled a sweat passing move in last chicane I think it was and after that he was gone burger..great stuff Bazz.

Last one was all tits up at the start, cars in all directions, slid off three times in the same corner, didn't learn..lol, smoked tyres....

Defintely lag about and FPS takes a bit hit at the start, must lower settings for next time, also, agree with idea of jetstream only connections and bitrates, assume that will help with lag related issues.

Good test with up to 20 cars out there, looked and sounded glorious. Still had fun even with the frustration.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:35 am

Damn...It sounded like fun.
Unfortunately I didn't get home until much later.

Yesterday I was speaking to Diseased from Canada and he came up with a great idea.
There are a lot of guys out there who would class themselves as newbies etc. He had the idea of hosting races (or a league) with all the aids, views enabled so that everyone can learn the tracks, learn how to overtake properly, getting away from the start cleanly and general driver etiquette.
Maybe some of the better drivers could join up every so often and give help with correct lines, setups etc.
As they get better we could encourage them to start taking the aids off.
This would also insure we have better drivers long term for the other leagues.
Again this was only a suggestion.
What does everyone think?

Growler.

Riven · Post by **Riven** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:41 am

im my personal opinion, if you start driving with aids on, then you will learn bad habits.

you start by pushing past yours and the cars driveable limits, and rely on the aids to help you out, this is just plain wrong, as when the aids start coming off, you have learnt nothing and cannot control the car or yourself.

you are better off to jump in the deep end, and drive without them. you dont have to pusht he car to its limits though, but just back off a little and you'll go a lot faster and stay on the track.

diseased · Post by **diseased** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:47 am

actually, Growler had the genesis of the idea, but it really hit me that, back with GTR2002, F1C and GPL, I used to host a lot of races and we'd see tons of people come in do a few laps and get frustrated simply because they didn't know where to start with setting up their car. It's one thing to read an article, no matter how well-written, but it's something else to be able to take that knowledge and apply it on the track, while you've got 5-15 other people screaming past you while what I call the dog-reflex (gotta chase gotta chase gotta chase) kicks in.
Add to this the fact that I see tons of posts on RSC/BHM/GTR forums about 'How do I drive this bloddy stupid thing?" and I think there's a potential 'market' for this sort of thing.
As well, given some of the posts i've seen on lag etc, it's something I'd be willing to host on my machine on a semi-regular basis, tho I'd need someone to be able to spell me if demand turns out higher than expected.
I'm not by any means saying that Growler and I are super-fast, but we've done online racing fairly extensively and we know how important it is to race cleanly, but mroe than that, how helpful it is to have someone more experienced offer poitners without being snooty/superior about it.

BTW, once I'm finished with this current project for Speedwerx, I'll be more than willing to start taking orders for Kiwi Simcentral or personalised paintjobs for GTR.

Agent X20 · Post by **Agent X20** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:10 am

Riven wrote:im my personal opinion, if you start driving with aids on, then you will learn bad habits.

I think it's a bit more complicated than this... Those new to race-simming have a number of immediate challenges to contend with:
1 - car control
2 - learning the tracks
3 - learning racing ettiquite
4 - dealing with faster drivers who own the road

Now if you can't manage 1, because you've turned all the aids off then you're going to have a hell of a time with 2,3 and 4.

My view is use the aids to support the learning process. By that I mean don't turn them all on and then turn on auto-drive. Instead use a few of them to help you stay on the black stuff more so you don't get frustrated and give up outright within ten minutes. Then, you might stand a chance with numbers 2,3 and 4. Remember this racing lark is about having fun.

This is why I race with low ABS and TC. Some of you might turn up your noses at this but frankly it means I can stay on the track more, have better car control and can enjoy the pleasures of real "racecraft" - the cut and thrust of close racing and dicing. That's what I'm here for not driving thousands of laps so I can drive "aids off" while suffering immense frustration along the way.

My 5c.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:11 am

Good call Riven.
My concern with that is the "deep end" could be too much for some people and would discourage them from going further.
They would join up, spin off all of the time and then disconnect never to be seen again.
I don't mind admitting to using ABS as an aid. The reason for that is because you can't feel the car using a computer. (I have raced a saloon car at Pukekohe for 6 odd years so I know how to "feel" the brakes in real life)
Again it was just a suggestion.

Growler.

diseased · Post by **diseased** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:23 am

Riven... for the most part, I'm in agreement with you.
However.. when I first started racing F1, I'd come from some rather arcadey driving games (primarily the NFS series) and had never driven these tracks before, so I had no clue where to start braking. So I used low braking point assistance until I started figuring out where >I< needed to start braking (as opposed to where the game thought I should start braking).
There really WAS no one that was willing to help people out.. something you see to a much lesser extent today with, say, setups. I can think of two people in the greater GTR community who are willing to share setups... Roland Ehnstrom and WR304. That's about it. Sure there are one or two other but you really have to hunt for them.
Something that'd just come to me would be, say, for Weeks 1 and 2, all aids allowed, working on the basics. Weeks 3 and 4, take away quite a few of the aids, say Steering assist, Braking Point, etc, and focus more on consistency and for weeks 5 and 6, only Clutch, low TC and low ABS, and focus on setups, etc.... slow in, fast out, that kind of thing.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:35 am

Just a thought...We don't need to have all of the aids on.
We could leave pit assistance off. I mean if you can't make it out of the pits you shouldn't be on!!!

Growler.

diseased · Post by **diseased** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:42 am

that one I agree wholeheartedly on.
If you can't even make it onto the track, you have no business driving a simulated several-hundred-HP machine.

Riven · Post by **Riven** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:58 am

Try starting people off in the Lotus Elise.. its dog slow, and handles very nicely and is very forgiving. Then move into unrestricted NGT, and a season or two later, move to either open classes, or just GT.

odonohuesp · Post by **odonohuesp** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:03 pm

I will put my hand in the air as saying that I was driving with aids on prior to last night and it is a challenge, but once I get use to controlling the car, then I will be fine. I had the same problem in TPTCC and it came around, of course I learned about adjusting the setup for the car for easier control too. I have not learned that in GTR yet.

Bold · Post by **Bold** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:09 pm

I beleive we have a somewhat different sittuation to what you've described here diseased. We have a smaller community that do actually help each other out quite often, particularly with setups etc. In the TPTCC leagues we've had there are several people willing to share their setups and to help with learning tracks and braking points etc. Most of us use ventrilo when we are racing for voice comms to laugh at and help each other out.

At the moment I would call about 80% of us Newbs when it comes to racing GTR online, so there is definately a need for some help and practice. I for one use low traction control and low ABS at the moment, and have damaged turned off, and clutch assistance. To be honest I would not reccomend using any more than this when you are learning, particularly not steering assistance and braking point assistance. When you are learning a new track you just need to slow down for a few laps and follow some other cars around. If you are having trouble, join ventrilo and ask the others how fast they are taking a certain corner etc, most of us are willing to help.

The only way any gets better at these sims is hours of practice..

diseased · Post by **diseased** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:40 pm

Bold... couldn't agree more. I think that's one of the things that a lot of noobs (heh, almost typed nobs... interchangeable in some cases, hehe) find so frustrating about it. It seems that they expect to be able to jump in the car and be Insta-Schumacher or, if American, Insta-Earnhardt.

The Lotus idea's a good one. Only problem I have with the Lotus is the non-changeable gearbox. Y'wind up rarely using 4th and almost never using 5th.

One of the big things that gets me with the aids/cockpit issue goes back to the interiew someone'd done with Hendrick Roos after he tested out GTR, where he was saying that without the physical sensations of being in the vehicle, he'd advise using low TC and low ABS. If a world-class real-world racing driver finds it difficult to drive without aids, I doubt it's gonna be any easier for, say, me. As far as the cockpit thing goes, I'd be perfectly willing to drive in enforced cockpit view, provided I had a TrackIR. As it is, I find that I can't see a damned thing going on around me and wind up smacking into someone.

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:53 pm

We've never had a forced cockpit view in previous road racing or oval series. I would say several people will call for it if/when a GTR league starts but it's unlikely to happen because I'd say at least half of us drive from a bonnet/roof cam.

I started with ABS ad TC on low. I turned them off for a while a couple of days ago and I found the car frustratingly hard to control under braking so I put them back on again. Those to aids on there lowest setting are the difference between being able to get out and at least be slightly competitive and not being able to make ANY corners

More practise needed for me

I did have one other issue last night on the final track. If there was a car inside me on that first right hander the sound of it's engine would cut in and out depending on it's exact position. It was rather un-nerving to say the least. I thought the car had lagged out but it happened again when I could just see the front of the car so the car was still there.

Anyone else have any sound issues?