Nascar CTS League - Race 9 Dover International Speedway

Post by **Inspector** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:32 am

I know your probably thinking......."Here he goes again, Haven't we heard this before....etc, etc, etc" but you really just have to sit up and take notice.

In our league we have some very fast drivers, some are fast and consistant and win races, some are fast and crash lots and take out other people. Then there is the rest of us. There are the guys that are not fast, but they are consistant and get their reward in the long run.

I have seen a lot of drivers changing their approach to racing and are starting to get results. Luck is playing a major part in some of the races when it comes down to a crash happening right in front of you or on the otherside of the track, or if the car behind you is the dork who has forgotton where his brake pedal is when that crash does happen right in front of you. Last night I was hit from behind in a few of these incidents and poor old Happy went bright red when I yelled a few choice words right in his ear at these people that took me out. But the real issue is turning round, being careful with your throttle and rejoining and getting back into the flow again. This is the difference in the drivers. You will get taken out, your dam lucky if you don't, but it's not a matter of how fast you can regain your positions lost, but how well you control yourself after a crash and getting back into the groove, this is where the difference is.

Once again I'm going to harp on about consistancy and I want you to really think about this "I'm on better tyres" thing and simply whether the few laps you are on better tyres is worth the charge and the possible accidents.

Last night there were some CTD's, a blown ignition and some disconnections. Last night there were some silly things done and some really bad luck. Last night some of our best drivers placed high in the placings.

But last night, consistancy also took 5 guys to high finishes and the statistics from the replay analyser are quite amazing.

RACE RESULTS (After 160 laps)

4th 747 UnbounD
5th 444 Inspector
6th 321 Z Happy
7th 555 Mattly
8th 777 T onyG

RACE FASTEST LAPS

21st Fastest 777 T onyG
22nd Fastest 747 . UnbounD
23rd Fastest 444 Inspector
25th Fastest 321 Z Happy
30th Fastest 555 Mattly

RACE LAPTIME CONSISTENCY

3rd Most Consistant 555 Mattly
4th Most Consistant 444 Inspector
6th Most Consistant 747 UnbounD
10th Most Consistant 321 Happy
14th Most Consistant 777 TonyG

Also interesting to note:

Unbound - 4th place - Pit Stops - 2 over 157 laps
Inspector - 5th place - Pit Stops - 2 over 156 laps

Apparently on track laps don't mean too much but there is some more interesting reading in that stat as well.

Aside from a bit of bad luck and some glitches in the game the stats keep speaking for themselves. 5 of the top ten finishes were 5 of the slowest drivers on the track, and because of this they avoided accidents, avoided creating accidents, avoided tyre wear and fuel consumption. They used their eyes and their brains and drove good races and got the results to back it it up.

Instead of whinging and complaining in the forums about what everyone else did or didn't do. Spend some time on the track practicing and have at least 2 cans of beer (or Scrumpy) before the race and chill out. It works for me.

chronic · Post by **chronic** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:48 am

Inspector wrote: some are fast and crash lots and take out other people.

I love this, he's probably refering to me.

I have one incident with Ron who gets shitty when I accidently tag him when hes unwilling to yeild coming off the corner and yet I can probably pull 3 or 4 incidents off the replay when I was piled into from behind when slowing down for accidents ahead.

Flyboy69 · Post by **Flyboy69** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:49 am

chronic wrote:Just looking at the replay of the incident I'm quite sure how Ron can even attribute the blame on me as I was a good half a car length ahead coming off the turn.

No intention of backing off a little, simply a case of him being racey with me.

Bear in mind Ron is the car on the outside being lapped here, should he yeild?

Looks like to me, Croink, you should have kept low, but thats just from the pic, replay might show it differently.

chronic · Post by **chronic** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:03 am

Flyboy69 wrote: Looks like to me, Croink, you should have kept low, but thats just from the pic, replay might show it differently.

I went high out of the turn for 2 reasons, firstly I wrongly assumed Ron was going to let off to let me by given we weren't racing for position and secondly I only took right tires on my last stop to try and make up some ground on hax wood so i was drifting up higher than usual due to worn lefts.

rob_c · Post by **rob_c** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:21 am

odonohuesp wrote:Yes it is frustrating when I am losing a car for position, but that slower truck has every right to be on the track as I do. I remember seeing in the forums that it is the responsibilty of the faster truck to get around the slower truck. The slower truck just needs to maintain a certain line and have control of their truck.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that . . . yes we all have a RIGHT to be on the track, but we also have to show RESPECT.

That attitude might work on the larger tracks, but not on the smaller ones.

In lots of racing (like F1 and Touring Cars), a driver is given a Blue Flag if they are about to get lapped, and it's the car being lapped that has to yield . . . and if they hold up the car that's trying to pass them for too long, then they get a Black Flag.

Now I know that we are simulating NASCAR that doesn't have Blue Flags, but that's how I always approach my racing online . . . if a car catches me and is obviously faster than me (irresepective of whether they are racing me for position, are a lap up or a lap down) I will ALWAYS yield to them . . . .well maybe not to a car for position in the last few laps ! ! ! . . . and I usually go HIGH (though sometimes I go LOW on the straight and call them HIGH if that's the faster line on a particular track), and I autochat for them to PASS HI or PASS LO.

I know I'm not "Normal" in that regard, but I can't see ANY point in EVER holding up a faster driver.

I'd be curious to hear what everyone else's thoughts are on that issue . . . maybe we could have a Poll ?

1. Should a lapped, slower car yield to faster drivers by moving off the racing line ?
2. Should a lead lap, slower car yield to a faster lapped car (due to pitting) by moving off the racing line ?

As far as the issue of being passed both Hi and Lo by two faster cars, well . . . it happens . . . and people have to make split second decisions . . . sometimes they choose "Wisely", others they choose 'Unwisely" [to quote the Knight from "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"] . . . same thing can happen when you are approaching a spinning car or a wreck : Hi or Lo ? . . . Hi or Lo ? . . . Choose "Wisely" and your a Hero . . . Choose "Unwisely" and you are a Zero . . . just the Luck Of The Draw . . . and the same thing applies to How Much do you slow for a wreck . . . and hope that the car behind you slows by the same amount.

But after all that, I have to say that I enjoyed the second half of the race . . I got involved in some others' wrecks in the first half . . . but I had an incident free second half . . . apart from the issue with lapped cars.

And yeah . . . Claim and Counter Claim in the forum about incidents really doesn't help anyone (or the Group as a whole) . . . by all means DISCUSS incidents . . . but ARGUMENTS and ACCUSATIONS really only make things worse.

As far as Ventrillo goes, I've come to a few Post Race Sessions to listen to what you guys talk about, but I have to say that 50% of you are just pure distortion to me . . . and I can't understand what is being said . . . that's why I don't use it during the race . . . preferring to use AUTOCHAT as I have always done . . . it can't be my Ventrillo setup, because some of you sound really clear . . . although some must be using standalone mics and speakers as they ECHO . . . which would also mean that they'd also be broadcasting their Engine Sound during a race ?

I do find it odd that some of you break off into your own Team Chat Areas rather than meet with the main Group tho.

So yeah, please don't bring the Group down with in-fighting . . . you seem like a great bunch of guys and I'm very happy to have been allowed to have joined you.

IT'S JUST A GAME . . . WE ARE HERE FOR FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT, RIGHT ?

Post by **Inspector** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:26 am

chronic wrote:
Inspector wrote: some are fast and crash lots and take out other people.
I love this, he's probably refering to me.

No I wasn't actually.

Inspector wrote:In our league we have some very fast drivers, some are fast and consistant and win races...

This referred to drivers like Wood, Snake, Odie, Bazzil, Happy and yourself to name but a few who are consistantly fast and finish in the top ten.

But I really have to wonder when you are going to wake up to the fact that this is oval racing and not road racing. The driving styles and rules are different. I really have to wonder when you are going to wake up to the fact that this is online racing not real racing. There are drivers of all skill levels competing here, unlike real racing where the drivers have to earn the right to be racing alongside the best in the world.

You and a few others could take an example from Daniel Wood, the best driver in our league undeniably, who gets ripped by other less skilled drivers, by good drivers who make mistakes and even on occasion by his own mistakes. But does he swear at other people in the forums? Does he threaten other people in the forums? Does he pack a sad and threaten to leave, does he quit out because things have gone bad.

NEVER

Dan and other drivers accept the bad and unlucky things that happen in an open league like this, makes the best of it and have fun. No matter what his age he acts with maturity and has respect for the people he races alongside not matter what their skill level.

Every single one of you should take note:

If you are not enjoying it and you can't at least show some respect for your fellow competitors and offer advice or help instead of abuse, then stop playing in our league. I'm sick of hearing all the abuse and complaining.

Get positive or get lost! there are plenty of new guys joining who have great attitudes and I would rather race with them even though they have lots to learn and make mistakes and will probably take me out on the track, at least they won't threaten me or blame me for their mistakes.

Typhoon · Post by **Typhoon** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:29 am

We now have something to clear the MLC's off the Track

RedValiant · Post by **RedValiant** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:42 am

Things are getting heated again

Well I tried the Zen art of driving and got to 3rd place for a while there. Looking to let aggro guys through, lapped guys through - hell even guys fighting for position were let go - just so i could conserve, conserve, conserve and finish top ten for once. I slowed for an accident later on, and got rear ended by an Australian who went on to finish 9th while I became a pinball with yellow tyres several laps down

. Very hard to remain focused and positive in this enviroment...though at least I learnt to drive on worn tyres and lap somewhat consistantly. I'm thinking that this oval racing is really too much of a lottery if you are not one of the top five or so guys who have hoarded all the good mojo. I'll finish the season and take it from there. GLA

Eagle32 · Post by **Eagle32** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:54 am

Inspector wrote:Get positive or get lost! there are plenty of new guys joining who have great attitudes and I would rather race with them even though they have lots to learn and make mistakes and will probably take me out on the track, at least they won't threaten me or blame me for their mistakes.[/b]

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:58 am

Inspector wrote: Get positive or get lost!

Comments like that don't impress anybody Inspector, chill out

Remember your sig from GP

These forums are not a democracy. You are free to go elsewhere if you disagree.

End of story.

This thread has run its course.

Mailman

Not exactly the same but you're getting close

chronic · Post by **chronic** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:07 pm

Haha no can do, I actually thought I was doing quite well enjoying the race and keeping my emotions in check despite being on the receiving end of some dodgy driving.

If someone rips into me for what I see as a 50/50 incident then I'm gonna rip right back, from where I stand Ron should actually be setting an example and not resorting to that type of behaviour.

Bold · Post by **Bold** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:08 pm

chronic wrote: I went high out of the turn for 2 reasons, firstly I wrongly assumed Ron was going to let off to let me by given we weren't racing for position and secondly I only took right tires on my last stop to try and make up some ground on hax wood so i was drifting up higher than usual due to worn lefts.

This is wrong in my opinion. You should not expect a car you are lapping to jump on the brakes to let you through, he is racing against other people too and they dont want to be slowing down for them. The best way to let someone through is just take the high line, as Ron did and adjust your speed for the different groove. The passing driver can then take the inside line and easily move up. It is their responsibility to ensure they are well clear before they move right over in front of them.

If im letting someone through I will move down behind them as soon as they are clear so I can get in the draft asap and help both cars.

If you cant make a clean pass then you should not be not be passing at all. On a track like that you could usually wait 2-3 laps for the car in front to screw the corner a bit and go wide, and make it really easy for yourself to pass up the inside.

Note, I havent watched the incident in question, im just talking about general passing

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:09 pm

TonyG wrote:
Inspector wrote: Get positive or get lost!

Comments like that don't impress anybody Inspector, chill out

Remember your sig from GP

These forums are not a democracy. You are free to go elsewhere if you disagree.

End of story.

This thread has run its course.

Sorry Tony, but I would have to disagree with you on this.

I feel Inspector as hit the nail on the head.

This year is the worst I've seen the forum behaviour and race behaviour. I think it has degenerated to slaggin off posts compared to what was seen on the Gameplanet forums before. The problem is now it's regular behaviour on post match comments.

And as you say, these forums are not a democracy. Absolutely. If people do not like racing online with people, they disagree with driving styles, they should leave. It works both ways.

rob_c · Post by **rob_c** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:13 pm

Bold wrote:On a track like that you could usually wait 2-3 laps for the car in front to screw the corner a bit and go wide, and make it really easy for yourself to pass up the inside.

Unless they try and get back on the racing line or squeeze ya.

Snake Rogers · Post by **Snake Rogers** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:18 pm

Well good work there Inspector

I'm sick of this shite also...LETS KEEP IT POSITIVE

Post by **Inspector** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:18 pm

Fair comment Tony and duely noted.

I would like to clarify that I am angry with abuse, swearing and threatening people. If you have an opinion then state it. But if you can't do so without the above included then it is not good enough. I am far from perfect myself but all I can do is try to set some sort of guidelines for fair and decent behaviour and if that is not what the members of the forum want I will back down, but I think some people have gone too far and I am willing to stand up and say so.

TonyG · Post by **TonyG** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:18 pm

Prometheus wrote:
And as you say, these forums are not a democracy.

Sorry prom those aren't my words, they were made by mailman on GP and inspector used them in his sig to show his disapproval of the way the forums were being run

My comment was to indicate that I would not wish this forum to become a dictatorship in a similar vein, and the comment "get positive or get lost" is insulting (I do not believe it was intended for me but as a general comment)

I do not condone any flaming or bashing, but let's work on the cause and not the effect!!

chronic · Post by **chronic** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:22 pm

Boohoo.

Mattly · Post by **Mattly** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:34 pm

TonyG wrote:
Inspector wrote: Get positive or get lost!

Comments like that don't impress anybody Inspector, chill out

Remember your sig from GP

These forums are not a democracy. You are free to go elsewhere if you disagree.

End of story.

This thread has run its course.

Mailman

Not exactly the same but you're getting close

I think Inspector does a good job and we all hold a level of respect for him and the effort he puts into this league. Personnally i have found him a good listener and when someone complains about someone else in his presence, he will be careful not to quickly take sides as the other party is not there to defend themselves.
Inspectors comment to Chronic above, is long overdue. So many people have complained to him about Chronic's attitude and yet he has been determined to give Chronic an opportunity to correct his behaviour. Chronic must be blind to the thin ice he has been on for the last few races and i would like to see him suspended for the rest of the session, not only to punish him, but also to send out a message to other drivers to watch there behaviour on the track and in the forum.

My 2cents.

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:31 pm

Well I must say last night was alot of fun....aside from my computer deciding lap 30odd would be a perfect time for a reboot, but other than that I "think" I managed too stay out of trouble pretty well (except for an incident with my teamate Skelo

).

Now I've just gotta hope I can finish a race without getting disconncted (and hope I can get Ventrilo sorted so as I can hear whether I'm being a good/bad driver), cyas all next week!

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:32 pm

Amazing what a small track does

, carnage on the track, and carnage off the track lewl.

erm, with the whole driving thing, it pretty much is all in the rules
don't expect anyone to yield to you.
You have to expect to make a pass, not the other driver move out of the way.

It is both wise and courteous to let other cars through that you are not racing for effective position mainly because there is a good chance they are faster than you anyways, and if you keep them right up your ass for too long you will probably end up getting taken out anywho.

On Oval racing you must hold your groove when passing until completely clear of the other car, there is no 'nose in front, or nose up on the inside' rule to give you right of way in nascar, that's how it is.

If you make a pass on someone and change your line causing an accident then you are in the wrong, no matter who you were passing.

rob_c · Post by **rob_c** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:32 pm

I just had a look at the Race Analysis.

I was surprised that I came 10th . . . I thought I was 11th.

Under the Damage Cost Summary, there are 2 cars who lost engines . . . but it says that I have "Other" expenses of $1000 ?

I didn't think I BROKE anything.

BAZZIL · Post by **BAZZIL** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:35 pm

it's an administration fee, payable to the race committee please, real money :P.

Riven · Post by **Riven** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:54 pm

BAZZIL wrote:On Oval racing you must hold your groove when passing until completely clear of the other car, there is no 'nose in front, or nose up on the inside' rule to give you right of way in nascar, that's how it is.

If you make a pass on someone and change your line causing an accident then you are in the wrong, no matter who you were passing.

I completely agree here, and this is really the only passing rule anyone needs along with the note that there is no blue flag!.

chronic · Post by **chronic** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:54 pm

While what you say is true Bazzil there is still a thing called 'give and take'
And when people apply it, it leads to less carnage on the track.